tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Mar 08 15:24:29 1997

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RE: KLBC: Steve Ray De'

Hi, Stephen!  I'm SuStel, the list's Beginners' Grammarian.  It's my job to 
help out those just beginning in the language, and those who require some 
help.  If you have a beginner-level question, or want to hold a conversation 
with others at an easy level (this I highly recommend), then just put "KLBC" 
at the beginning of the subject line.  I'll be the first person to critique 
your grammar and vocabulary, but others will answer speak to you at a beginner 
level.  (And of course, don't respond to anyone else's KLBC grammar until 
after I've had a go at it.  This keeps the confusion and conflicting opinions 
down to a minimum.)

If you haven't already, two important web pages to check out:

Klingon Language Institute
http://www.kli.org

tlhIngan Hol mailing list FAQ
http://www.thomtech.com/~dspeers/klingon/faq.htm

On Saturday, March 08, 1997 6:16 AM, [email protected] on behalf of Stephen 
Ray wrote:

> ghojwI'chu' jIH

You missed a space: {ghojwI' chu' jIH}

Another way to say this would be {jIghojchoH} "I am beginning to learn."  It's 
sentences like these you should pay attention to.  One of the tasks new 
students to Klingon must learn to do is focus more on verbs than on nouns.  
English is very noun-centric, and Klingon is very verb-centric.

> HIQaH

maj.  pIQaHbej.
Good!  We will definitely help you.

> Steve Ray jIH

This is probably okay.  There's a definitely correct way to say this, though:

jIHvaD *Steve Ray* ponglu'.
I am called Steve Ray.

The grammar here is a bit tricky; I'll wait until I see how advanced you are 
before I try to explain it.  If you try and have trouble, ask me and I'll be 
happy to explain.

Note that I put asterisks around your name.  It's important that you 
distinguish between English words and Klingon words.  Be sure to always mark 
non-English words, or you may send a hundred people searching through their 
dictionaries looking for a word that doesn't exist!

> "North Wales" vItoqpu'

{toq} is "be inhabited."  You can't say "I have been inhabited North Wales."  
{toq} is a stative verb, and probably doesn't take an object.

There's been some debate as to exactly how you'd say "I live in 
Such-and-Such."  One suggested way is

"North Wales"-Daq jIyIntaH.
I (continuously) live in North Wales.

I'm not sure why you have used {-pu'} here.  Read TKD 4.2.7 carefully.  You'll 
see that using {-pu'} indicates that the action is completed.  This does NOT 
mean past tense, though.  See also the FAQ.

> 'ej HolQeD vIHaDpu'

If you meant to say that you happen to have studied linguistics and have now 
finished, then this is fine.  If you intentionally studied linguistics, and 
that intention is part of the point, then you'd say {HolQeD vIHaDta'}.

> DaH "Speech and Language Therapist" jIH

Well, this might be {QIch Hol je Qel} "speech and langauge doctor."

> "Star Trek" vItIvtaH 'ach reH Holmey je Seghpu' vIHaDtaH

When you use a noun conjunction, either {je}, {joq}, or {ghap}, the 
conjunction must come *after* the final noun.  See TKD 5.3.

What exactly do you mean by {Seghpu'}?  You've used the 
beings-capable-of-using-language suffix, so I assume you mean different 
"races" of humans.  It might work, but I think you need to add just a bit more 
information:

'ach reH Holmey, ghot Seghmey je vIHaDtaH.
But I'm always studying languages and races of people.

"Race" isn't a person, it's a system of classification.  Therefore, it 
shouldn't really get a {-pu'} suffix, it gets {-mey}.

> tlhingan Hol Daj law Hoch daj puS

Be sure to capitalize all {I}s and {D}s!  It may not seem important, but to an 
experienced Klingonist, it's practically impossible to smoothly read something 
spelled that way!

Also don't forget glottal stops!  It's {law'}, not {law}.  In this case it 
wasn't damaging, but sometimes it's important.  If you were in a car, would 
you rather {paw} or {paw'}?

> vaqtaH tlhingan tayqeq 'ach DajtaH 'oH

{tlhIngan}.  What do you mean, "The Klingon civilization is mocking but it is 
interesting?"  Until you become more proficient in the language (and you're 
doing really well!), you should include an English translation, so I can 
correct sentences that I can't figure out.

> "Kahless" vImugh vIneH

It took me a minute to figure out that you were referring to the book of that 
name.  Remember, the correct Klingon pronunciation is {qeylIS}.

> tlhingan Hol vIghojmeH paqvam vImughchoHmoHlI'

{tlhIngan}.  Capital {I}.  Why'd you add the {-moH} in there?  Your sentence 
says "In order that I learn Klingon, I am in the process of beginning to cause 
this book to translate."  {mugh} is "translate," not "be translated."  I'd say

tlhIngan Hol vIghojmeH paqvam vImughchoH.
In order that I learn Klingon, I begin to translate this book.

See?

I also removed the {-lI'}.  Are you beginning to translate, or are you in the 
process?  Pick one; I don't think you mean to say both.

> qesraj vIneH jIH

{qeSraj}.

> tlhingan Hol Qu'mey boghaj'a'

{tlhIngan}.  "Do you have any Klingon tasks?"

> An addition; why is the topical suffix -'e' used in
> 	<nuqDaq 'oH Qe'QoQ'e'>
> but
> 	<nuqDaq So'taH yaS>

Read TKD 6.3 carefully.  You'll see that {-'e'} is always put on the subject 
of a "to be" construction, which uses a pronoun.  {nuqDaq 'oH Qe QaQ'e'} is 
such a sentence.  (Watch the spelling there!  I don't think you meant to say 
"restaurant music"!  And make that two words.)

Kahless:
chaq Qatlhqu' Qu'vam.
tlhIngan HollIj DaDubDI' chaq bIruchlaH.

Qu'mey:
HIja', SoHvaD tlhIngan Hol Qu' vInob.
yIjatlh!
naDev yIjeS!
bIqeqtaHchugh tugh bIjatlhchu'.
wej <qeylIS> yIbuS.

If you have any problems with this, let me know.

-- 
SuStel
Beginners' Grammarian
Stardate 97185.3

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