tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jun 30 08:15:36 1997
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Okrand on /-vam/
- From: "d'Armond" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Okrand on /-vam/
- Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:12:49 -0400 (EDT)
More from Okrand on MSN. The original question from charghwI' is below.
"Marc Okrand" <[email protected]> wrote in article <01bc851d$58cff220$LocalHost@marcokra>...
> Regarding "tonight" and so forth, I'd go along with your suggestion:
>
> DaHjaj ram "tonight" (literally "today night" or "today's night")
>
> DaHjaj po "this morning" (literally "today morning" or "today's morning")
>
> DaHjaj pov "this afternoon" (literally "today afternoon" or "today's
> afternoon")
>
> DaHjaj DungluQ "this noon" (literally "today noon" or "today's noon")
>
> DaHjaj ramjep "this midnight" (literally "today midnight" or "today's
> midnight")
>
> DaHjaj pemjep "this midday" (literally "today midday" or "today's midday")
>
> (The phrases "this noon," "this midnight," and "this midday" are a little
> awkward in English -- we'd probably say "today at noon," "tonight at
> midnight," "today in the middle of the day" or something -- but in Klingon,
> they fall right into place.)
>
> In Klingon, you could even say DaHjaj pem "today's daytime," which would
> probably be typically contrasted with DaHjaj ram "today's night" (or
> "tonight").
>
> wa'leS po "tomorrow morning," cha'leS po "the morning of the day after
> tomorrow" (literally "two-days-from-now morning"), and so on work quite
> nicely.
>
> Adding -vam "this" to most words designating fixed periods of time seems to
> be the only way to indicate "current." Thus the current year or "this
> year" is DISvam (referring, of course, to a Klingon year, or DIS), the
> current month or "this month" is jarvam (jar "[Klingon] month"), and the
> current week or "this week" is Hoghvam (Hogh "[Klingon] week"). There
> don't seem to be special words for "the current year" and so forth
> comparable to DaHjaj "the current day" or "today." DaHjaj seems to be
> formed of the adverbial DaH "now" plus the noun jaj "day," a unique type of
> formation as far as I know. It is perhaps by analogy to DISvam, jarvam,
> etc. -- all formed by simply adding a noun suffix to a noun -- that
> Klingons also refer to the current day as jajvam "this day" (jaj "day,
> period from dawn to dawn").
>
> Though they both can be translated "today," DaHjaj and jajvam are not quite
> interchangeable. As the time element in a sentence, DaHjaj (and not
> jajvam) is used:
>
> DaHjaj romuluSngan vIHoHpu' "today I killed a Romulan"
> (DaHjaj "today," romuluSngan "Romulan," vIHoHpu' "I have killed him/her")
>
> As the subject of a sentence, on the other hand, jajvam is more typically
> found:
>
> nI' jajvam "this day is long"
> (nI' "[it] is long [in duration], jajvam "this day")
>
> though DaHjaj is not impossible:
>
> nI' DaHjaj "today is long"
> (nI' "[it] is long [in duration], DaHjaj "today")
>
> DaHjaj also behaves as a noun (as opposed to an adverbial element) in such
> noun-noun constructions as DaHjaj gheD "today prey" or "today's prey," a
> term often heard in Klingon restaurants with a meaning comparable to "catch
> of the day."
>
> Phrases such as jajvam po "this day morning" or "this morning" are not
> common, but they're not ungrammatical either.
>
>
> Will Martin <[email protected]> wrote in article
> <01bc7b9b$1f4e3e20$7666c5cd@will>...
> > Marc,
> >
> > How would you suggest we convey the terms "tonight", "this morning", etc.
> I
> > was personally drawn toward sticking to time-centric terms rather than
> > spacial-centric grammar and say {DaHjaj ram} and {DaHjaj po} rather than
> > {ramvam} and {povam}, both because they didn't mix concepts of time and
> > space and because it would naturally be extendable in the form of {wa'leS
> > ram} or {wejHu' po}, while the use of {-vam} does not have that property.
> > Meanwhile, in {HeghmeH QaQ jajvam}, you clearly showed that {-vam} works
> > with time related terms.
> >
> > So, I'm open. What's your preference?
> >
> > charghwI'
> >
>