tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jun 30 08:14:36 1997
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Okrand on /jatlh/
- From: "d'Armond" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Okrand on /jatlh/
- Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:11:55 -0400 (EDT)
Some more from Okrand on MSN.
--Holtej
"Marc Okrand" <[email protected]> wrote in article <01bc8510$cc6b8260$LocalHost@marcokra>...
> Neal Schermerhorn <[email protected]> wrote in article
> <01bc8033$1d3dad40$88472399@dtorvtwg>...
>
> > I have a few unrelated questions for Dr. Okrand.
>
> I'll take these up one at a time (in separate responses).
>
> >
> > 1) Does qajatlh mean anything? Some feel this is poor grammar. I'm not
> sure
> > what to think. Can jatlh take an object other than a language?
> >
>
> The object of jatlh "speak" is that which is spoken. Thus, it's OK to say
> "speak a language," for example:
>
> tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh "you speak Klingon"
> (tlhIngan Hol "Klingon language," Dajatlh "you speak it")
>
> But it's also OK to say "speak an address, speak a lecture," for example:
>
> SoQ Dajatlh "you speak an address" or, more colloquially, "you deliver an
> address" or "you make a speech"
> (SoQ "speech, lecture, address," Dajatlh "you speak it")
>
> To say simply:
>
> jatlh "he/she speaks"
>
> implies "he/she speaks it," where "it" is a language or a lecture or
> whatever.
>
> The indirect object of jatlh, when expressed, is the hearer/listener.
> Thus:
>
> qama'pu'vaD tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh "you speak Klingon to the prisoners"
> (qama'pu'vaD "for the prisoners," tlhIngan Hol "Klingon language," Dajatlh
> "you speak it")
>
> qama'pu'vaD SoQ Dajatlh "you make a speech to the prisoners"
> (qama'pu'vaD "for the prisoners," SoQ "speech, lecture, address," Dajatlh
> "you speak it")
>
> When the indirect object (in this case, the hearer) is first or second
> person, the pronominal prefix which normally indicates first or second
> person object may be used. There are other examples of this sort of thing
> with other verbs. For example, someone undergoing the Rite of Ascension
> says:
>
> tIqwIj Sa'angnIS "I must show you [plural] my heart"
> (tIqwIj "my heart," Sa'angnIS "I must show you [plural] it")
>
> The pronominal prefix in this phrase is Sa-, which means "I [do something
> to] all of you" in such sentences as:
>
> Salegh "I see you [plural]"
>
> but when there's already an object (in this case, tIqwIj "my heart"), the
> "object" of the prefix is interpreted as the indirect object, so Sa- means
> "I [do something to] it for you" or the like.
>
> This, then, brings us back to your question. Since the object of jatlh is
> that which is spoken, and since "you" or "I" or "we" cannot be spoken (and
> therefore cannot be the object of the verb), if the verb is used with a
> pronominal prefix indicating a first- or second-person object, that first
> or second person is the indirect object.
>
> Which is a not very elegant way of saying that qajatlh means "I speak to
> you" or, more literally, perhaps "I speak it to you," where "it" is a
> language or a speech or whatever:
>
> qajatlh "I speak to you"
>
> Sajatlh "I speak to you [plural]"
>
> chojatlh "you speak to me"
>
> tlhIngan Hol qajatlh "I speak Klingon to you"
> (tlhIngan Hol "Klingon language," qajatlh "I speak it to you")
>
> There's another wrinkle to this. The verb jatlh can also be used when
> giving direct quotations:
>
> tlhIngan jIH jatlh "he/she says, 'I am a Klingon'"
> (tlhIngan "Klingon," jIH "I," jatlh "speak")
>
> jatlh tlhIngan jIH "he/she says, 'I am a Klingon'"
>
> (With verbs of saying, such as jatlh, the phrase that is being said or
> cited may come before or after the verb.)
>
> If the speaker is first or second person, the pronominal prefix indicating
> "no object" is used:
>
> tlhIngan jIH jIjatlh "I say, 'I am a Klingon'"
> (jIjatlh "I speak")
>
> tlhIngan jIH bIjatlh "you say, 'I am a Klingon'"
> (bIjatlh "you speak")
>
> There are instances where the pronominal prefix marks a big distinction in
> meaning:
>
> tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh "you speak Klingon"
> (tlhIngan Hol "Klingon language," Dajatlh "you speak it")
>
> tlhIngan Hol bIjatlh "you say, 'Klingon language'" [that is "you say the
> phrase 'Klingon language'"]
> (tlhIngan Hol "Klingon language," bIjatlh "you speak")
>
>
> I realize that this answer to your "quick" question is probably too quick
> itself. It is not by any means a complete discussion of the several topics
> mentioned and I may have phrased things not as clearly as they might be
> phrased. As a result, this answer may end up just raising other questions.
> qay'be'. We'll get to them as they come along.
>
>