tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Jul 11 12:46:51 1997

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Re: -moH suffix



According to Neal Schermerhorn:
... 
> I teach you Klingon = I cause you to learn Klingon
> tlhIngan Hol qaghojmoH

bIlugh.

> Show me the planet = Cause me to see the planet.
> yuQ HIleghmoH

bIlughqa'.

> It makes me want to shout! = I shout - It causes me to want that.
> jIjach 'e' muneHmoH

I suspect that the special rule for {neH} would come to play
here and eliminate the {'e'}:

jIjach muneHmoH.

> (?It makes the doctor want to shout)

Drop back and punt:

'oHmo' jach neHchoH Qel.

I added the {-choH} only slightly because it is valid. It makes
the sentence clearer, showing {neH} to be a verb and not an
adverb.

> I make your frustration bother you. = You are frustrated - I cause that to 
> bother you.
> bImogh 'e'vaD SoH vInuQmoH

Thank you for playing. bImujchu'. This is so twisted I can't
translate it at all. You are indeed causing my frustration to
bother me. {{:)>

qanuQ. qamoghmoH.

Either word works alone.

> The captain makes the facts you deny insult the gunner.
> ngoDvam Datembogh baHwI' tIchmoH HoD

I can't understand the ENGLISH translation, let alone the
Klingon. The Klingon part makes a little more sense, though it,
too is gibberish:

The captain causes the gunner of this fact which you deny to
insult.

If you could provide a little context to explain what either of
these is supposed to mean, I'll try to help you out here.

> (?The captain makes the facts the admiral denies insult the gunner?)

Okay. I'll GUESS at what you mean:


ngoDmeyHey temtaH 'aj. baHwI' lutIch ngoDmeyHeyvam.

The problem is that the Agent requires {-vaD}, a Type 5 noun
suffix, while the head noun of the relative clause in a
relative clause with both an explicit subject and object
requires {-'e'}, another Type 5 suffix to disambiguate whether
you are talking about the facts which the admiral denies, or
the admiral who denies the facts. In this case, since admirals
are far more commonly capable of insulting someone than facts,
the assumption would be likely made that such a sentence would
mean, "The captain caused the admiral who denies the facts to
insult the gunner," and there is no way to disambiguate within
the grammar of a single sentence:

ngoDmeyHeyvaD tembogh 'aj baHwI' tIchmoH HoD.

There are those who think {-vaD} should be moved to the end of
the relative clause in the same way it is moved to an
adjectival verb in a noun phrase, but we don't have any
confirmation of this whatsoever from Okrand. Meanwhile, this
whole thing is a mess because it makes no sense in any
language. Facts don't insult. People insult while referring to
facts of various degree of accuracy.

> The drunk Terran makes the bartender upset the Ferengi.
> verengan QeHmoH chom 'e' qaSmoH tera'ngan chech

I think humans put too much faith in one's ability to cause
action. I doubt the bartender was really forced to cause the
Ferengi to get angry. I suspect there was a predisposition
there all along and the bartender was just using the drunk
Terran as a shallow excuse to dodge his responsibilty for his
own actions.

chom nuQ tera'ngan chech. verengan nuQ chomvam.

> I cause myself to dread my shoreleave.
> leSpoHwIj jIHaj'eghmoH

rejmorgh qoH je vIDataHvIS leSpoHwIj vIHaj.

> I need to make the Terran eat the qagh.
> tera'nganvaD qagh vISopnISmoH

bIlugh.

> I make the Terran need to eat the qagh..
> qagh SopnIS tera'ngan 'e' vIqaSmoH  

Actually, the previous example is ambiguous and could be
translated either way, though I would tend to translate it the
way you did. This closer example is less ambiguous and does
work for what you seek. You similarly could have written the
previous example:

qagh Sop tera'ngan 'e' vIqaSnISmoH.

Still, for all these, I prefer to use different constructions
altogether explaining the world more accurately. Why would I
need to cause the Terran to eat qagh? If my commanding officer
insisted, then:

qagh Sopbe'chugh tera'ngan vaj jIHegh!

If, on the other hand, I just take it upon myself to mess with
this human:

qagh Sopbe'chugh tera'ngan vaj Hegh tera'nganvam.

See? My officer does not cause me to do anything. He just gives
me a simple choice. Similarly, I do not cause the Terran to eat
anything. I just offer him a simple choice. Vendors don't cause
you to buy anything. They just offer you a simple choice.

bIyaj'a'?

> Qermaq

charghwI' 



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