tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jan 22 09:35:03 1997
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Re: SeQpIr, *Sonet*mey bom 123
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>Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:56:37 -0800
>From: "Kenneth Traft" <[email protected]>
>
>Hi Chris,
>
>You wrote:
>I'm new. Can someone please translate this sonnet into English.
>
>I attempted to translate it, but I don't have a copy of Shakespeare's sonnets.
> This is the best I could come up with for a translation, perhaps someone else
>will give a better rendition! Some of it didn't make sense to me, but it may
>be that I miss some of the "suttle linguistic use" or the silly rhyming scheme
>or some such!
I haven't yet looked up the sonnet, but I have some comments on your
translation...
>Qo', bov! "bIchoH" bImIy 'e' vIchawQo'!
>I refuse, era! I won't permit you to brag, "You change"
>
>jIHvaD Dojbe' 'ej Dal vaS'a'lIj motlh
>It not be impressive for me and it is usual your great hall is be bored
Just out of curiosity, why do you translate "Dojbe'" as "it not be
impressive" when you correctly conjugate other verbs when translated back
into English? It's just "it is not impressive".
It sounds like you're translating this as though there were a period
between "vaS'a'lIj" and "motlh" (i.e. separate sentences: Your great hall
is boring. it is usual.) That could be, but Nick does tend to use
punctuation. I think he means "your usual great hall is boring" using
"motlh" adjectivally.
>chenmoHpu'bogh HoS chu'. reH chavmey ngo'
>The new power which was formed. Always old achievements.
The first sentence is a fragment. He presumably meant "chenmoHpu'bogh HoS"
as the object of the verb "chu'" which thus has to be a transitive verb.
Not "new", but "trigger." Also note that "chenmoHpu'bogh" doesn't mean
"which was formed" but "which has formed (something else)." It's the
active verb, with -moH. Something like "It triggers the formative power"?
Aha, there are enjambments at work here. I think they have confused you
some. The sentences don't necessarily end at the ends of lines (look at
Shakespeare's sonnets and you'll see the same behavior). Perhaps,
combining with the previous line, we get "And the new power which has
formed your usual great hall is boring." Would help if I would bother to
look at the sonnet. Perhaps I will call it up on a web site
somewhere... AFTER I finish this post. More fun that way.
Similarly "reH chavmey ngo'" is a sentence fragment because it's the object
of the sentence which continues on.
>luSutqa'moH neH bIH; ngo'Ha', 'ach notlh.
>They only causes <Sut> again, very old, but it is obsolete
Hmm. "Sut" looks like a Nick-style error for "tuQ", at a guess. "They
always just resume putting on old accomplishments"? Maybe; have to see the
text. "ngo'Ha'" is not "very old", it is "un-old", something like "new."
Remember, "-Ha'" is a semi-negator, not an enhancer.
>nom rInnIS DISmaj; vaj wIHo'taHmeH
>Quickly our year it is finished, thus, we continue to admire it
"Our year *must be* finished quickly", that's what the -nIS suffix is there
for. Note another enjambment: "thus *in order that* we continue to admire
it..."
>ben quv wIbuS, bIraDmo'. quvvetlh tu'lu',
>Because your force it, we think only about honor years ago there is that honor
"... we concentrate only on honor of years past, because you force."
(note: bIraDmo', not DaraDmo' is what's said). "That honor is found,..."
>'oH boghmoHpu'mo' neHtaHghachmaj leH,
>It is because it was caused to be born it maintains our wanting
"Because the maintenance of our wanting bore it."
>net Har --- 'a lutmey tIQDaq ghoghDaj ngu'lu'.
>It believes that --- nevertheless one identifies his voice in ancient stories.
"net" means "one..." in the sense of "one believes" or "it is believed."
So we have that the previous sentence is generally or widely believed
(i.e. folks believe that this honor exists because it was born of the
maintenance of our wanting.) "...but his/its voice is identified in
ancient stories," yes.
>Hoch tameylIj vIqaD, 'ej SoH qaqun,
>I challange all your records, and I scold you,
Yes... mmm, nice pun on "qun"/scold and "qun" the noun meaning "history",
what with the juxtaposition with "ta"/record. (and the near-pun on
"qon"/record [the verb]).
>'ej jIH muSIvmoHbe' DaHjaj, Hu' po je,
>and today it cause to wonder me, the morning gets up also,
If "DaHjaj" were the timestamp, it would have come first. It must be used
as an ordinary noun: "today makes me wonder", "today puzzles me".
The second sentence could be as you translate it, but I'm inclined to
believe that it's not a sentence but part of the subject of this one: "Hu'
po" the morning of days ago. The "je" joins the two nouns, following them
as is usual: "Today and the morning of days ago puzzle me,..."
>neplI'mo' ghu' wItu'bogh; nep je qun,
>because the situation lies which we discover, it lies and the history also
>lies,
"...because the situation which we discover is [in the process of] lying,
and history too lies,..." The -bogh clause applies to "ghu'."
>ghurDI' 'ej nupDI' yo'HeylIj Dup, Do je.
>When it increase and when it decrease the strategy of your apparent fleet,
>velocity also.
I think "Do je" is part of ordinary noun conjunction; Nick I think likes to
put commas between those nounse. "When your apparent fleet's strategy and
speed increase and decrease" (your translation is confusing, I think,
because it follows the word-order of Klingon and the translation is
English, implying a transitivity to the verbs that isn't there in the
Klingon).
>'ach DaH jI'Ip, 'ej batlh not mu'woQvetlh lIj.
>but now I swear, and it forgets that political power never with honor.
See, here you started to alter the word-order (correctly) to reflect the
English structure. "but now I swear, and honorably he/she/it [will] never
forget that word-authority."
>Su': reH jImatlh --- mughIjlaHbe'mo' 'etlhlIj.
>Ready. I am always loyal --- because your sword can can not scare me.
Yes.
Now, lets' find the actual sonnet. Pulled off
http://nevis.stir.ac.uk/~ldg/Sonnets/Sonnet13.html
Sonnet 123
No! Time, thou shalt not boast that I do change,
Thy pyramids built up with newer might
To me are nothing novel, nothing strange,
They are but dressings Of a former sight:
Our dates are brief, and therefore we admire,
What thou dost foist upon us that is old,
And rather make them born to our desire,
Than think that we before have heard them told:
Thy registers and thee I both defy,
Not wond'ring at the present, nor the past,
For thy records, and what we see doth lie,
Made more or less by thy continual haste:
This I do vow and this shall ever be,
I will be true despite thy scythe and thee.
Hmm... Interesting. Must do a closer comparison...
~mark
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