tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue May 07 15:10:54 1996
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Re: Cannon for Multiple Consonants
- From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: Cannon for Multiple Consonants
- Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 18:10:38 -0400 (EDT)
- In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> from "Sa' qIQwI'" at May 7, 96 08:53:37 am
According to Sa' qIQwI':
>
> Wrote Ford:
> >ghItlh Sa' qIQwI':
> >>> -y' and -w' are also consonant clusters.
> >> Are not. TKD lists y and w as vowels as far as I can recall.
>
> Give me one example where -y' or -w' would appear
> after a consonant. If you can't then they appear
> only after a vowel, thus they are vowels.
WHAT? Listen to yourself. You have characters which appear only
after a vowel, right? So, except for the characters in
question, what are the only kinds of characters in Klingon
which can follow vowels? I suggest that only consonants can
follow vowels. This would suggest that {w} and {y} are indeed
consonants. Otherwise, they are the only vowels allowed to
follow other vowels. This is unlikely.
> If w in
> -w' is a vowel then -w' can't be consonant cluster.
And if a frog had wings... Your condition is false, so your
conclusion is meaningless. {w} is not a vowel in Klingon.
> example: Qaw' Q aw '
> c v c
Nope. That's: c vc c
>
> >> y = diphthong forming I
> >> w = diphthong forming u
Nope. The {a} in {Qaw'} sounds just like the {a} in {Qap}, but
the {w} is a different consonant than {p}, but it is still a
consonant. If {w} were a vowel, you could say {Qw'}. I don't
see THAT in my dictionary...
> Sorry, I meant diphthong-forming to be an adjective
>
> >I would truly like that to be true. Best example: Try spelling "Ice Cream"
> >using the Klingon alphabet:
> >
> >'ayS QIym
> >
> >'Twould be good if y were a dipthong,
>
> Let me rephrase: w and y form diphthong with the
> vowel they are following. aw and ay are diphthongs
> aren't they?
No. THey are vowels followed by consonants.
> >but most people unfortunately consider it a vowel,
>
> ??? - but I said it's a vowel, diphthongs are vowels aren't
> they? A sound where two vowels form one phoneme, right?
But {aw} is not one phoneme. It is two. {a} followed
immediately by {w}, just like {ap} is {a} followed by {p}.
> If a diphthong is a phoneme then they are cvc, thus do not
> violate spelling rules. After all, there are quite a few
> words with a diphthong between the consonants.
Buy a clue. {rgh}, {w'} and {y'} are consonant clusters.
qa
That is an open syllable.
qaw
That is a normal cvc syllable.
qaw'
That is a syllable ending in a consonant cluster.
Every vowel can stand alone in the middle of a normal cvc
syllable. {w} and {y} cannot. They are not vowels in Klingon.
> Well, are diphthongs phonemes or not?
In Klingon, dipthongs do not exist, so your question is not
appropriate to this langauge.
> >Qapla'
> >
> >Ford
>
> Sa' qIQwI'
charghwI'
--
reH lugh charghwI' net Sov.