tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Mar 06 18:59:31 1996
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Re: KLBC Mouk-to-vor
- From: [email protected] (MR PAUL J COFFEY)
- Subject: Re: KLBC Mouk-to-vor
- Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 21:33:02 EST
To: [email protected] Subject: KLBC: Mouk-to-vor
ghItlh ghunch'wI'
>qeSmIv HarghwI' writes: >
>>The Rite of Mouk-to-vor as performed in "Sons of Mogh"
>wej lutHomvetlh vIlegh vaj mu'mey neH vInoHnIS. qarbe'chugh qechraj Qagh
vI'anglaHbe'.
>I missed that episode, so I won't be biased by what this "should" >say.
:-)
>>ghopDu'Daq ngaSwI' ghaj wor'Iv ngaSwI'Daq MeQ 'adanjI
>QaQ pab...
>'ach pujlaw' mu' <ghaj>. qetlh. Qam neH. chaq ngaSwI' qeng'a' >ghaH?
mu' Daj DaSamlaH'a'? rambej 'ach rut qechmo' jIngotlh.
> <'aDanjI> vIghovbe' 'ach qulHom weq ghap rurba'.
>The grammar is fine...
>But {ghaj} is such a boring word; it just stands there. Did Worf
>perhaps "carry" the container? Can you find a more interesting
>word? It's really not important, but sometimes I get obsessed
>with meaning. I don't know what {'adanjI} means, but it obviously
>has a flame.
I was looking for the word "hold." They are facing each other, not
moving, and Worf has an incense burner in his hands. Perhaps if I say
<ghajtaH>? They are not moving at this point so I deemed <qeng>
unsuitable, because it carries overtones of movement.
"Adanji" is the name of the incense used in this ceremony. It is
apparently a strict requirement. Dax realizes what is going on when she
learns from Quark that Worf has been looking for adanji and would not
accept replicated adanji. I put the glottal stop in front because of the
rule that no tlhIgnan word begins with a vowel, but made no other change.
I should have changed the "D" as well I suppose.
>>jatlh wor'Iv: qaStaHvIS yInvam Damaghlu'pu' SoHvaD ratlh
>>pagh ratlhbe' batlh ratlhbe' DuH
>maj.
>>qurInDaq 'adanjI' ngaSwI' vIHmoH
>maj. ('ach qetlhlaw' <vIHmoH> je. chay' vang wor'Iv? ngaSwI' yuv'a'?)
>{vIHmoH} seems dull also. What did Worf do? Did he "push" the
>container?
He moved the container (incense burner) forward so that the incense
wafted toward Kurn. I will change to <yuv>.
>>jatlh qurIn: tlha'bogh qaStaHvIS yIn batlhwIj vISuqqa' vIneH 'Iw
>>bIQtIq Dop latlhDaq jIlengrup 'ej *StovalqorDaq jI'elrup
>I think this needs to be {qaStaHvIS tlha'bogh yIn...} if you mean
>something like "during the life after this one". {tlha'bogh yIn}
>"the life which follows" is the subject of {qaStaHvIS} "while is
>occuring". {'el} probably has the place being entered as its
>object, so I'd change the last couple of words to {*Stovalqor
>vI'elrup}.
I will make those changes with an additional change: I have just
received the script for the DS9 episode "The House of Quark." The spelling
given there is "STO'VO'KOR." (I could have sworn I heard lateralization at
the end of the second syllable when Kurn said it. Oh well.)
>jatlh wor'Iv: lenglIj ngeDmoHjaj tajvam
>QaQ pab, 'ach...
>leng ngeDmoHbe'bej taj. leng tagh neH taj. porgh tlheDDI' qa', ramqu'
>taj.
>The grammar is fine, but...
>A knife can't make the journey easy. It merely *starts* the journey. Once
>the spirit has left the body, the knife is irrelevant.
Here I must disagree. Worf's words were, "May this blade speed you on
your journey." I don't want to occupy space with a long discussion on the
subject, but "speed" here means "facilitate." "Speed you on your journey"
is a phrase used, in the literature, to describe helping someone on his
way, perhaps by material means such as giving him supplies for the journey,
or by simply wishing him well, sending him on with blessings, and perhaps a
stirrup cup. It clearly means "to make the journey easy." Things done at
the beginning of a journey are intended to make the entire journey easier.
I feel that your view of the knife's role is too limited.
>>mup wor'Iv pum qurIn paw Dax oDo je ropyaHDaq jollu' Dax
>>qurIn porgh je
>mup'a' wor'Iv'e'? taj lo'be''a'? <HIv wor'Iv> Daja'nIS 'e' vIHar.
>*Worf* runs into/hits/strikes him? He doesn't use the knife? :-) >I think
you mean "attack", not "impact, strike".
Yes, Worf does use the knife, but, no, not an attack. This is an
ancient ceremony, as stylized, though perhaps not as complex, as the
Japanese seppuku ceremony. If you have watched such, if only in the
miniseries _Shogun_ or the "Samurai" episode on _Highlander_, you know that
there is a faithful companion present who can be relied upon to finish the
ceremony if one fails to complete the act. Liken that to what Worf is
doing and you will see that the word "attack" would be totally
inappropriate. This is a brother doing a great favor for a brother.
Perhaps "strike" will seem better if one remembers the coming of age
ceremonies in the South Pacific, where the son says to the father who is
about to cut away a symbol of boyhood from the son's chest, "Strike,
Father." I thought of using <ghoS> "thrust," but also doubted its
appropriateness in this case.
Since Worf already said <tajvam>, on the principal of recoverability,
and for dramatic effect, I left the knife out of the sentence.
>The last sentence's word order is wrong. "Dax and Kurn's body"
>is the object of {jol}, and must come before it. Also, since
>they are plural, the prefix {lu-} should be used: {ropyaHDaq Dax
>qurIn porgh je lujollu'}.
Oh Yes. {{:-[ Interference from Indo-European languages where they
would have been the subject of a passive verb. jIDIv
>Not bad. I notice you didn't say {qurIn lom}; should I infer
>that he survived the ritual?
Yes, Bashir revived him.
>wejpuH. batlhDaj Suqqa'be'law'.
lutHom DaleghnIS {{;-]
The revised version:
(I am adopting peSHIr's spelling of Worf as being the most logical.)
ghopDu'Daq ngaSwI' ghajtaH wo'rIv ngaSwI'Daq MeQ 'aDanjI
jatlh wo'rIv: qaStaHvIS yInvam Damaghlu'pu' SoHvaD ratlh pagh ratlhbe'
batlh ratlhbe' DuH
qurInDaq 'aDanjI' ngaSwI' yuv wo'rIv
jatlh qurIn: qaStaHvIS tlha'bogh yIn batlhwIj vISuqqa' vIneH 'Iw bIQtIq
Dop latlhDaq jIlengrup 'ej *Sto'vo'qorDaq vI'elrup
jatlh wor'Iv: lenglIj ngeDmoHjaj tajvam
mup wor'Iv pum qurIn paw Dax oDo je ropyaHDaq Dax qurIn porgh je
lujollu'
Qapla'
qeSmIv HarghwI'