tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jul 31 11:50:33 1996
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Re: -neS and batlh
On Mon, 29 Jul 1996, Mark E. Shoulson (The Grand Poohbah) wrote:
> >I was hoping that one of the Grammarians could explain if there is a
> >consensus on the proper use of the Type 8 Verbal Suffix "-neS" and the
> >adverbial "batlh".
>
> >I seem to remember during the workshop on verbal suffixes at the
> >qep'a', that it was stated that "-neS" is best interpreted as an
> >honorific such as in:
>
> >"You are a complete knothead, SIR." or
> >"One bimbo or two, MR. PRESIDENT?" or
> >"I won't pay this speeding ticket, YOUR HONOR."
>
> Heh. I like these. I'd say it's actually pretty close to -neS's meaning,
> though a Klingon would never use it this way... because the person
> addressed would never fall for it. -neS indicates that the speaker is
> honoring the person addressed, regardless of what's said or who the subject
> or object of the sentence is.
>
I'm glad you enjoyed my examples. I certainly enjoyed writing them!
(Especially the second one!) After thinking about your reply, I realized I
had fallen into the tlhIngan Hol as a code for English trap. I was
looking for a literal translation, when I should have been looking at the
concepts. HIvqa' veglargh! It made my brain hurt until I remembered when
Krankor said, "HabneS SoSlI' Quch!" at the qep'a'. Clearly he was not
indicating respect to someone's mother, nor to her forehead. So it made
perfect sense that -neS indicated respect on the part of the speaker for
the listener regardless of the message.
> >This brings me to the adverbial "batlh". At the end of one of the
> >tapes Okrand says, < batlh qaghojmoH >. This is translated as, "It has
> >been an honor to instruct you." Page 56 of TKD defines "batlh" as
> >meaning "with honor, in an honored fashion." Doesn't this mean that <
> >batlh qaghojmoH > could just as easily be translated as, "I teach you
> >WITH HONOR." This changes the meaning of the sentence completely.
>
> You're right, it does. Not a whole lot, but noticeably. Again, part of it
> is the English idiom "it has been an honor to," which can be read in more
> than one way. It would seem to me that "-neS" would be closer to the
> meaning of it, but perhaps he felt that "batlh" would be more powerful and
> better in the Klingon (or conversely that "I teach you with honor" wouldn't
> sound right in English).
So essentially, I was again being too literal in my search for an
English equivalent. "batlh" as an adverb indicates that whatever the
action was that the verb described, it was done honorably or with honor.
The deficiency is in the ability to translate the concept into English,
not in the use of the adverb. If I want to be more explicit about who or
what caused the honor, then I need to create a more descriptive sentence.
qejwIt
_________________________________________________________________
Thomas M. Zeman " reH nuHmey tu'lu' "
(Former!) Chairman, Connecticut Division, United States Fencing Association
Prime Minister, Fat Dog Fencing Club, Wallingford, CT
University of Bridgeport: Bridgeport, Connecticut, USA
EMAIL: [email protected] and/or [email protected]
PGP Public Key: 0145FDE5 (Keyfile available upon request)