tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Feb 03 14:54:24 1996

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Re: KLBC - jInID

I don't know if this is the correct procedure, but I'm going to treat the
BG's comments like one of my professors' comments, and respond to them.
 Usually this works well in helping me understand things that didn't make
sense, and every once in a while I've managed to convince a professor that I
was even right! ;)

  >>boghpa' wo', HurghtaHvIS Hoch,
  >>reH cha'leS rurDI' cha'Hu'
  >>vaj 'u' HeHDaq najlI' HoSDo'pu'

maj.  'IHlaw'.  <vaj> Dange'laH 'e' vIHar.
This is very nice.  I don't see a need for {vaj} on the last line, though.

[My reply:]
Well, to be honest, I didn't either, at least not grammatically. But, since
this is sentence is actually made up of four phrases (pretty wordy for
Klingon) I thought adding the <vaj> would give some closure.  Especially
after all those Type 9 suffixes.

  >SurchemmeyDaq Qonglaw.loghDaq yInlaH.
  >vumlaHe' 'ej chImtaHghachDaq bIr jatlhlaHbe'.
  >'ach, najbej.

<vumlaHbe'> DaghItlh 'e' DaHechba'.
{chImtaHghach} does mean "emptiness", but I don't think it should be used
the way you have used it here.  This kind of "emptiness" is not a place,
but a condition.  You might say {chImtaHwI'}, using {-wI'} as "thing which
is", to mean "continuously deserted thing", or be less poetic and simply
refer to a cold, empty place.

When a verb is used following a noun in an adjectival sense, type 5 noun
suffixes such as {-Daq} are placed on the verb, not the noun (see TKD
section 4.4).

[My reply:]
Actually, I don't want to be less poetic. I used <chImtaHghach> specifically
because it didn't denote a location.  I wanted to invoke a property of
desolation and emptiness, and then make it a place using <-Daq>.  That's why
I didn't go with <chImtaHwI'>.  I must have missed that bit about nominal
suffixes on verbs.  Thanks, that is VERY helpful.

  >QongtaHvIS lanmey Dun Such'a'?
  >no' wIch qanqu' ghojta'a'
  >QongtaHbe'mo' wISovlaHbe'.

{lan} is a verb, not a noun; you probably want to say {Daqmey} on the
first line.  There's a verb in the dictionary for "be ancient": {tIQ}.
(It's right after {no'} "ancestors".)

[My reply:]
Damn. I hate when I make that mistake.  <Daqmey> should have been used of
course.  As for the verb <tIQ> instead of my using <qanqu'>, I was trying to
do something kind of subtle, which didn't translate well back into English.
 You see, the myths in question are ancient from *my* point of view, but were
only very old from the perspective of the ancestors (to whom they belong).
 Do you see what I mean?  Anyway, I thought it was neat.

  >vemDI' paghDaq jachHa'.
  >jachHa' 'ej SIQlaHbe'.
  >jachHa' 'ej muH'egh.
  >Heghlah'a' HoSDo'? qIt'a'?
  >vISovbe'. qaSDI'wanI' cha'leS rurchu' cha'Hu'

Except for that odd word {jachHa'}, this seems fine.  I guess "unscream"
is a bit too poetic for my tastes -- it doesn't suggest anything to me.

[My reply:]
Again, since I composed this whole thing in Klingon first, and only then
translated into English, I can live with this kind of criticism. I wasn't
thrilled with "unscream" myself, but I liked it better than "mis-scream"
which seemed like the only other choice.  It's not intended to be
particularly poetic, merely descriptive of what energy beings screaming in a
vacuum might be doing.

*** End of commentary by ghunchu'wI' and my responses to it***

This was VERY helpful, and I am quite grateful.  Thank you BG for being so
swift and insightufl.  I'm not sure where I'll go with this next (if
anywhere).  But, just in case anyone else wants to offer some
feedback/comments, here it is again with the corrections I agree with (and
without the ones I don't):

  boghpa' wo', HurghtaHvIS Hoch,
  reH cha'leS rurDI' cha'Hu'
  vaj 'u' HeHDaq najlI' HoSDo'pu'

Before the empire was born,
while everything was dark,
when the day before yesterday
always resembled the day after
tomorrow, at the universe's
edge energy beings dream.

  SurchemmeyDaq Qonglaw.loghDaq yInlaH.
  vumlaHe' 'ej chImtaHghach bIrDaq jatlhlaHbe'.
  'ach, najbej. 

In fields of force they seemed to sleep.
In space they were able to live.
They were not able to toil, and
in the cold emptiness they were
unable to speak. But they surely dreamed.

  QongtaHvIS Daqmey Dun Such'a'?
  no' wIch qanqu' ghojta'a'
  QongtaHbe'mo' wISovlaHbe'.

Did they visit wonderous places while they slept? 
Did they learn their ancestors' ancient myths?
Because they did not continue sleeping, we cannot know.

  vemDI' paghDaq jachHa'.
  jachHa' 'ej SIQlaHbe'.
  jachHa' 'ej muH'egh.
  Heghlah'a' HoSDo'? qIt'a'?
  vISovbe'. qaSDI'wanI' cha'leS rurchu' cha'Hu'

When they awoke they unscreamed in the nothing.
They unscreamed and could not endure.
They unscreamed and they put themselves to death.
Can energy beings die?  Is it possible?
I don't know. When the event happens
the day before yesterday clearly resembles
the day after tomorrow.

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