tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Dec 05 13:43:23 1996

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Re: ST5 Transcript: (was Re: KLBC: lut)

At 01:15 PM 12/3/96 -0800, charghwI' wrote:
>On Tue, 3 Dec 1996 [Voragh] wrote:
>>
>> As it happens, last month I retranscribed all the Klingon I could from ST3,
>> ST5 and ST6 from my own copies of the tapes. This was something I have been
>> wanting to do for some time now as I've noticed there seems to be some
>> variation among the various "transcriptions" of the movies cited on this
>> list. I listened to each line several times trying to determine exactly what
>> the actors are trying to say--as opposed to what we think they should be
>> saying based on the subtitles.
>
>So, you have a psychic VCR, do you. It can actually tell you 
>what the actors are trying to say, whether they manage to say it 
>or not, regardless of backgound music and noise. Very 
>interesting. I'll have to save up for one of THOSE.

"While a Klingon may be inaccurate, he is *never* approximate"! We should
transcribe what the actor is actually saying, then try to determine what
Okrand's underlying tlhIngan Hol line was. As you well know, actors have
problems with the more unusual sounds of tlhIngan Hol. Often they do not
properly rasp "H", but ignore it altogether especially in word final
position (as in the name "Sarah"). "gh" is never properly gargled, but
simply pronounced as /g/ (as in "ghost"). They often have problems dealing
with "Q" and "q" in unexpected places (at least for an English speaker),
pronouncing it as /g/ (hard as in "get") or as /kw/ (as "quiet", "quick",
"quote" and virtually every other English word with a Q)--never mind trying
to distinguish "Q" from "q". (This is a problem even for the closed
captioner; watch the scene in ST6 between Kesla and Uhura at Morska Outpost
where "nuq", "nuqDaq" and "rura penteDaq" are captioned "nug", "nugDaq" and
"rura penteDag" in otherwise properly spelled Hol.) "S" /sh/ is often simply
pronounced as the English /s/ (as in "sit"), or even /z/ (as in "easy?).
*Here* is where we must divine the underlying Klingon line in the script the
actors were trying to say.


>Maybe we have different editions? A director's cut or something? 
>Or maybe this is an example of me writing what I thought he 
>should have said instead of what he said?

You know, I've wondered this myself. Some scenes in the version of the tape
I bought do seem as if a word or two has been trimmed from the beginning.  I
did not hear Vixis say "maHIvmeH" nor did I hear Klaa say the syllable
"lup-" in "DujHomDaq ghaHtaH" (I was surprised, so I watched it 6 or 7 times
just to be sure--the line is clear from context: there was only the Duj
Enterprise and the DujHom with Kirk aboard).


>> Klaa:  jIbaH
>>        "Firing!"
>
>I heard him say, {yIbaH} and I thought the subtitle was "Fire!"

We will need to verify all the subtitles as well, I see.


>>       [...]                                             The group
>> effort at puzzling out that untranslated scene at the beginning of Power
>> Klingon was quite productive and shows the advantage of several sets of ears
>> and points of view--not to mention different sound systems playing the same
>> tape (I don't have a stereo VCR).
>
>I suspect that each of us got parts right the other got wrong. 
>We went through this with the audiotapes and I found that it 
>really helped to have other people's guesses in front of me when 
>I listened again. There were passages that I could have sworn 
>were one way, but when I had the other person's suggestion in 
>front of me and I listened again, the other person was obviously 
>right.
>
>Meanwhile, that same other person was obviously wrong in other 
>sections. We never all totally agreed, but we got most of it 
>covered at a higher degree of acuracy than any one of us could 
>ever have done alone.

> [...]
>In fact, I'm sure I made the same mistake I just accused you of 
>in other lines. I'm sure I wrote down what I felt SHOULD have 
>been said, even though perhaps I was simply misunderstanding 
>what they WERE saying.
>
>Parsing this stuff is hard. At times, it is impossible. I admit 
>that. You don't seem to, but perhaps I am just being extreme in 
>my defense. This is new?

Too often, it seems, our transcriptions are (unconsciously?) based on our
back-translating the subtitle (which, it must be remembered, may have been
rewritten after Okrand translated the line; ST5 was particularly plagued
with frequent, last minute script changes I am told) or its similarity to a
*nearly* identical example in TKD. What we must do is focus on what the
actor is actually saying and not what we want him/her to say. The subtitle
is often just a loose, colloquial translation anyway and shouldn't be taken
too literally. (Azetbur's war council scene on Kronos One following the
assassination of her father in ST6 is a good example.) I am probably just as
guilty as the rest, looking at the many places we disagree in our
transcriptions. Thus, the need for an "Online Transcription Project" such as
I proposed. We can't argue from canon unless we agree on what it is.

So, if you will send me your transcript of ST5 privately (or post it to the
list if you prefer), I will go through both our versions line be line this
weekend.  If you cannot find your copy of the videotape, I'll lend you mine
(though it might cost just as much to rent one from the video store as
mailing it back and forth).

>
>charghwI'

maQapjaj!

Voragh

______________________________________________________________________
 Steven Boozer                 |  
 Cataloging Department         |   "Saying, would know.
 University of Chicago Library |    Do not know, so cannot say."
 [email protected]   |                         -- Zathras

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