tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Dec 12 20:58:38 1995

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Re: Klingon on Internet Relay Chat

I wrote:
>[regarding {SuvwI' Hoch}] ...I'm not
>quite sure this "partive" construction follows the noun-noun rule
>in TKD, but it's canon.

Holtej writes:
>If you take noun-noun (N1-N2) as "N2 _of the_ N1", then it works.

This adds to my discomfort with extended interpretations of noun-noun.
"All of the warriors" is not possessive, is it?  Is it GENITIVE?  From
the examples I've seen, I don't think so.  What *is* this construction
called?  I thought the term "partive" fit the english construction.

me again:
>One other thing about your sentence bothers me.  You're using
>{chaH} in its verb form in both senses of "to be" simultaneously.
>{*Maine*Daq chaH SuvwI''e} and {SuvwI' bIr chaH SuvwI''e'} are
>both valid sentences (though the second one is rather convoluted),
>but I'm not sure the combination is reasonable.

Holtej again:
>I don't follow you here.  His intended meaning was, if I'm reading it
>right, "In Main, all warriors are cold warriors."  I don't think he means
>that all warriors are in Maine.  Of the warriors who happen to be in
>Maine, all of these warriors are cold.  This works fine for me.

I understand the intended meaning perfectly, but I'm not convinced that
the Klingon is correct.  Replace {SuvwI' bIr chaH} with {qagh Sop} to get
{*Maine*Daq qagh Sop SuvwI' Hoch} "All warriors eat worms in Maine."  This
is NOT the same idea as "In Maine, all warriors eat worms."  I'm pretty
sure that "In Maine, something happens" cannot be translated simply as
{*Maine*Daq qaS vay'}.  Maybe "something which is in Maine happens."
How about {SuvwI' bIr chaH *Maine*Daq chaHbogh SuvwI' Hoch'e'}?

That's not what I originally complained about, though.  TKD 6.3 describes
two different kinds of "to be", and I don't know if they can both be used
at the same time with the same pronoun.  {pa'wIjDaq jIH} and {loD jIH} are
explained separately, and I think {pa'wIjDaq loD jIH} is too close to the
English "I am" for comfort.

-- ghunchu'wI'               batlh Suvchugh vaj batlh SovchoH vaj

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