tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Sep 30 18:39:02 1994
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Re: KLB(?): Order of Nouns
According to [email protected]:
>
> I'm still relatively new to Klingon and I'm trying to create
> a word for Museum, which isn't in the dictionary. I'm not
> very certain of the rules for the use of and order of multiple
> nouns and complex nouns.
Well, at least you should not feel too much alone. Those who
are not so new with the language tend to disagree sometimes. In
general, for multiple nouns (or noun-noun constructions, as TKD
puts it) the rules Okrand gives us are that if you have two
nouns A and B next to each other, then A B translates either to
"A's B" or "B of A". We don't really have guidelines to tell us
differently for compound nouns.
> Could someone please provide me with a quick tutorial on
> creating complex nouns?
We only have four lines in TKD to describe them to us on page
19. 3.2.1 doesn't tell us much, though you can derive patterns
from it and from the other words in the word list that are
polysyllabic nouns that appear to be made of clearly formed
shorter nouns (and unfortunately, sometimes verbs).
> When is it best to use complex nouns or mulitple nouns?
This is the kind of question that gets answered by each
linguist's personal theory. My own (non-linguist) guideline is
that complex nouns (not noun-noun constructions) are most
appropriate when the combination of nouns creates in essence a
new noun. Your own example is an excellent one. A museum is not
just a house.
> Here's what I'm thinking:
>
> I decided that a good way to say museum would be House of
> History. Would it be better to use juH qun, juHqun or the
> reverse?
House of History = B of A = A's B = History's house = qun juH.
This means that I'd suggest if you wanted to make this a
noun-noun construction (two separate words), it would need to
be {qun juH} and not {juH qun}.
If you wanted to make it a complex noun (which in this case
makes a lot of sense to me), I'd follow the pattern Okrand
gives us with {jolpa'} and say {qunjuH}. By the way, {juH}
doesn't really mean "house". It means "home", but in this case,
I think "home" may work even better than "house", since we mean
that this is the place that history lives. (At least that's
what the people at the museums want you to think.) If you
really want "house", you might go for {qach} instead.
> Now, how would I say a Klingon Museum? Would it be a house
> of Klingon history or a Klingon house of history?
It may be because I am an English speaker, but my sense is that
the boundary between complex nouns and noun-noun constructions
for Klingon is similar to the boundary between new nouns and
nouns described by adjectives in English. In this case, I'd say
{tlhIngan qunjuH}. "A Klingon's home-of-history". The Klingon
in this case is of course, the same generic Klingon who speaks
a Klingon's language.
> tlhIngan juH qun or juH tlhIngan qun
Neither of these work for me.
> Thanks.
I hope this helps.
charghwI'