tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Nov 21 09:48:02 1994

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Re: SatlhobneS



>Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 13:02:04 -0500
>Originator: [email protected]
>From: [email protected] (Riku Anttila)

>nuqneH. I have a variety of questions and this must be the right place
>for them. At least #1 and #2 are for KLBC.

It's the right place, and I'm not sure #1 is a KLBC problem, so I'm
stepping in...

>1. Probably because English is not my native language, I'm having
>   difficulties in understanding the meaning of {net}. Could you
>   please define it in other words and perhaps give a few examples
>   where I could or should use it.

"net" is a tough word, even for English-speakers.  In order to understand
"net", you have to understand "'e'" (the *word* not the *suffix*).  You
didn't express any problem with "'e'" so my explanation of it will be
short.  Essentially, "'e'" is a way to make one sentence (or clause:
basically a verb with its attendant subject and maybe object and anything
else on it) the *object* of another sentence.  So, to use TKD's example, we
start with the sence "puq qIp yaS" (the officer hit the child).  I want to
say "I saw the officer hit the child".  That is, the whole *sentence*
describing that hitting is the object of the verb "to see."  So I do it
thus:

puq qIp yaS 'e' vIlegh.

See how "'e'" works?

Once you have "'e'", net is pretty simple.  A simple way to think of it is
that "'e' Xlu'" is pretty much the same as "net X".  In fact, that's a
better description than Okrand's, I think.  There may be some small
differences (none of which spring to mind at the moment), but on the whole
it's a pretty good model.  So "qama' DIHoH net Sov" means "one knows we
kill prisoners" or "it's known that we kill prisoners."  Basically
indicates an impersonal or general subject (like the -lu' suffix).

>2. I have a problem with the pronouns used as verbs. One says
>   {tlhIngan SoH.}, but one also says {SoH 'Iv?} even though
>   'Iv "fits the into the sentence in the position that would
>   be occupied by the answer." Could you explain this to me?

Krankor himself asked the same question in his article in HolQeD 1:4.  He
was troubled by the same problem, thinking it should be "'Iv SoH".  I'd
recommend that you read the article, but to restate the conclusion
briefly...  Krankor concludes that "'Iv" and "nuq", like the other chuvmey
"jIH" and "SoH" and so on, can act as verbs as well as nouns.  So "SoH 'Iv"
makes "SoH" the object of the pseudo-verb "'Iv", using "'Iv" as a verb
meaning "Who is" (or "to be who?"), much as "SoH" in "tlhIngan SoH" is used
as a verb meaning "you are" (or "to be you").  That help?

>3. There are some words in TKD I don't understand. What are
>   quadrotriticale and topaline? The gaps are most likely in my
>   Trek-, general- or DIvI' Hol knowledge. Is bregit lung something
>   edible? What's a pipius, an animal with edible claws?

They're assorted Trek-references; I'm not sure what they all are either.
Let's see... Quadrotriticale is the grain that was shipped (and poisoned by
the Klingons and eaten by the tribbles) in the old Star Trek episode
"Trouble with Tribbles".  I think a bregit lung is a food, like
pipius-claws, but that's about all I know.

>4. How would I ask "_How_many_times_ did you hit him?" etc.?

Oh my, this is a tough one.  I haven't got a good answer, aside from what
Nick has written already.  I think Okrand may need to answer this.
Personally, I like the sound of "?'arlogh", but we've no solid evidence you
can do this.

>:ghor:.


~mark

tlhIngan Hol laDwI'vaD:
  pab yajmeH, loQ nuyu' ghor, 'ej vIjang.


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