tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Mar 29 12:37:27 1994
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Re: KBTP: Marcan vocabulary
Hu'tegh! nuq ja' [email protected] jay'?
=>This is a list of the neologisms and names I used in my translation >of
=_Mark_.
=For the most part these were good. A few, however, threw me off. And some
=could imesho use slight improvement.
Kevin Wilson's going to kill me for this, since I told him the thing was
finalised, but I actually will incorporate some of these comments; thanks
for taking the time, ghuy'Do!
=>Christ: 'IHrIStoS (ngoHlu'wI'?)
=Good transliteration. If I'm not mistaken, you got the idea of {'I-} from
=Turkish, qar'a'? But what in the ghe''or is {ngoHlu'wI'}. I think you'd
=better look over your KD once more.
Yes, it's a Turkish thing. I think it's a more sensible treatment of initial
consonant clusters than the Japanese alternative (HIrIStoS).
ngoH is smear as in anoint. -lu'wI' is my attempt at a patient suffix, since
-wI' is used as an agentive or instrumental. In other words, ngoHwI' can
mean an anointer, or stuff/ a tool used for anointing; but ngoHlu'wI' probably
makes sense as "ghot ngoHlu'bogh".
=>prophet: nemsovwI'
=Did you notice {leSSov} in TKD for "foresight"? {nemSov} would just indicate
=a time in the more distant future.
In fact, nemSov is modelled after leSSov.
=>Angel, messenger (a'ggelos): QumyaS
=Grammatically speaking, this compound is just asking for trouble. Maybe {Duy
=quv}, similar to your {Duy} for "apostle".
True, but it's, like nemSov, an extrapolation from QumpIn (which doesn't
seem to make as much sense for "angel" to me.)
=>baptise: tay'mo' vISay'moH
=[...]
=>unclean spirit: qa' lam
=Interesting you're assuming the metaphors of "clean" and "dirty" meaning
="morally good" and "morally bad" can also apply to Klingons. Klingons don't
=necessarily equate {lam} metaphorically with "unholy".
On baptise, the man was dunking people in the water, so taymo' (correctly
spelt in the text) is fair enough. As for dirty spirit, I know that was
a literal translation of a Hebrew term, and I don't think the Greeks would
have made that association either. Should this become quvHa'?
=>forgive, remission (a'phesis): noDHa'
=Maybe {pIchHa'} or {pumHa'}. Hopefully no one would take that to mean
="wrongly accuse", tho.
Oh. Um, I *have* used pumHa' to mean "wrongly accuse" in my _Much Ado_. I
don't see any reason we can't leave -Ha' ambiguous between both, though.
As to whether forgiveness is the opposite of retaliation, accusation or
blame... well, I can forgive X while maintaining X was at fault, so it's
not pIchHa' (pIch connotes responsibility, surely); to me, "forgive" is
closer to "I won't get back at you" than "I will stop accusing you". Anyone
have any suggestion here?
=>bird: chalHa'DIbaH
=Maybe {puvbogh Ha'DIbaH}.
A bit long; besides, chalHa'DIbaH has already been used (Matt Whiteacre),
and parallels bIQHa'DIbaH (which Mark has canonised).
=>Satan: veqlargh
=It would be better as {veqlargh'a'}. Satan is not *a* demon; he's *the*
=demon.
Yes, but (from the Trek lore we know of) there is only one Fek'lhr too.
=>fever: tujrop
=Be careful here. Is "fever" {tujrop} or {roptuj}. Is it heat resulting from
=disease or disease resulting from heat. {tujrop} looks to me like "heat
=stroke" or "hyperthermia".
Oh. Well, the relation between head and modifier noun in such compounds has
always been vague, I thought; to my mind, tujrop means only "disease
associated with heat", and I'd class a fever-inducing ailment here. But
I won't insist.
=>daemon (daimo'nion): mIghwI' (qa' mIgh?)
=I like {qa' mIgh}, which specifies that it's an evil spirit, as opposed to an
=evil person or thing.
Yes, mighwI' is too vague. So noted.
=>leprosy: surghwI' rop
=Maybe {Surghbogh rop}.
Yes. Much better.
=>priest (hiereu^s): chIrghyaS; chIrgh'utlh
=>chief priest (arkhiereu^s): lalDanla'
=Maybe {chIrghpIn} and {lalDanpIn}
Is there a real distinction? In Klingon society, everything has military
rank. Still, there's more of a precedent for -pIn compounds than -yaS.
I'll probably change these.
=>cast out (ekba'llein): vIDoHmoH
=Maybe {ghIm}.
exile? I'm reluctant on this one.
=>furniture, goods (skeu'e:): 'aH
=[...]
=>carpenter: 'aH chenmoHwI'
={juH 'aH} for "furniture" would be clearer.
True. Not really necessary for "carpenter", though, and skeu'e: corresponds
more to "goods" than "furniture" anyway.
=>fetters: qamnaQ
=What about {qammIr}?
OK.
=>wisdom: yablaH
=We also have {Sov} for "knowledge".
Oh! Didn't know it was a noun too. But wisdom is more of an ability, isn't
it, than an accumulation of a body of knowledge? Plus in context, it's
"what is this wisdom He has been given!", which I think fits better with
a laH.
=>from the dead (ek nekro:^n): lommeyvo'
=What does the Greek version mean literally? Both the English and Klingon here
=look idiomatic. I might suggest {HoHHa'} or {HeghHa'moH} for "resurrect". Or
=maybe {yInqa'moH}.
The Greek means... from the dead (ones). Always used together with "risen",
which in Greek (and English!) can mean just "get up" on its own. The Klingon
text just has "lommeyvo' yInqa'", or once, "vem". (Maybe I changed my mind
there).
=>dance: yItchu'
=I'm not so sure I'd understand this if I came across it in a text without
=plenty of context. But with no better suggestions of my own, my complaints
=are pretty much moot.
This one has a pedigree in _Much Ado_; I just figured that Klingons wouldn't
really dance; they'd march --- hence the yIt. I really don't see anything
else better.
=>elbow: DeSqIv
=I'd like to nominate this as a candidate among the TopTen NickNicholas
=neologisms.
As with many of these, they really came from Lojban, which also has a small
lexicon; I coined a fair few compound words there, but this was not one of
them; it was probably Lojbab's doing.
=>curse: naDHa'
=We also have {qIch}.
Yeah, but "condemn" is not what the ungrateful son can be said to do to
his parents, or Jesus to the fig leaf.
=>unchaste: naghHa'
=Huh?! {nagh} means "stone, rock". I don't think it's quite the word you're
=looking for.
nagh is the most popular rendering of the Klingon for "fuck" (let's drop
this "mate with" euphemy) in PK. It certainly, reportedly, doesn't sound
anything like nga'chuq of veS QonoS fame. (I really should listen to that
tape again some day.) This verb, too, got a lot of mileage in _Much Ado_.
=>sigh: tlhuHchu'
=I don't think I'd understand this one without a translation either.
Again, I don't see an alternative.
=>yeast: tIrSoj taS
="Liquid bread"?! Maybe {tIrSoj pepwI'}
Well, "bread's solution", but ok, pepwI' is better.
=>transfigure (metamorpho:'nomai): choS porghwIj
=Isn't that supposed to be {choH porghwIj}?
Yes.
=>salt: Sojqut
=Maybe {Soj choqbogh qut}
Probably too long. I don't know.
=>pangs (o:di'ne:): boghwI' 'oy'
=What?! "Labor pains"?! No! Try something like {nom 'oy'choH}
No, the word here means "birth pangs" (speaking of a new era).
=>bowl (tru'blion): Soj HIvje'
=I like {HIvje''a'} which is what Krankor used in his lut, I believe.
Actually, Krankor used "glass bowl"; I proposed HIvje''a'.
=>kiss: X luvan wuSDu'wIj
=The connotations involved here are.. uh.. interesting. This is probably
=beyond the realm of Klingon behavior. The closest they may come is {chop}. If
={yItchu'} works for "dance", then why not {chopchu'}?
I actually used "chop" in _Much Ado_. I know it sounds odd, but why does it
sound interesting? There is a lot in any Terran translation beyond Klingon
behaviour, and I guess we can either make it "chop", alter it to a much vaguer
"van", or leave this form in as a kind of gloss.
=>linen (sindo:^n): *lInen* qatwI'
=Wouldn't it be {qatlu'wI'}?
Not necesarily. -wI' can denote instrument as well as agent. (In Okrandian
terminology, things as well as people).
Nick.