tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Mar 02 22:38:22 1994

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KBTP: cumulative vocabulary?

{Sorry, this mail got cut off in the middle. Resending. }

>From: joel peter anderson <[email protected]>
>Date: Wed, 2 Mar 94 17:06:07 CST

>> >*DevwI'wI' 'oH joH'a''e', jineHbe' * The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not wa
>> *
>> Actually, I kind of like the one I posted a few weeks ago better.

>Ok, I'll let you like yours if you let me like mine.  I won't argue
>("tlhingan jIHbe'").

Sounds fair! :-)

>> "QorghwI'wI'" gets the meaning across better than "DevwI'wI'", or perhaps
>> "muQorgh joH'a'".  "'oH" is the wrong pronoun for this: if you're using

>Dev, "guide" appeals to me; lacking a 'real' word for shepherd, I chose 
>"guide", and you chose "take care"; maybe Ha'DIbaHyuvwI' would be better?  
>Lacking a lexicon at work, I forget, doesn't 'roi' for "my shepherd" come 
>from watch over?  Maybe something could be constructed to be "overseer?"

Nah, Ha'DIbaHyuvwI' is *definitely* not a good plan.  Hmm, let's see.  The
usual term for "watch over" is "shomer", which would translate well as
"'av".  'Pon reflection, 'avwI'wI' wouldn't be a bad word for this
situation either.  "ro`eh" really means... to be a herder, actually.  It's
only used with reference to herding sheep or goats or whatnot.  It's
similar in sound to "ro'eh", to see, but the roots aren't related.  Hey,
actually, the "ro'eh" root might be the same as in "rea`", which is an old
word for "friend" or "fellow".  None of which is getting us too far.  "Dev"
certainly beats anything with "yuv", and I can see the appeal of "Dev".
Say, while it's tempting to keep the "The Lord is my X" structure, in
Hebrew present tense that's the same structure as "The Lord X's me"; maybe
"muQorgh/muDev joH'a''e'", using the "-'e'" topic marker to give us "It is
the Lord who leads me", with nice emphasis.  What do you think?

>> "-wI'" for the possessive, and thus indicating that God is sentient, then
>> you'd better use "ghaH", not "'oH".  "want" in the English is an old usage,
>But.... *then* it doesn't fit on one line neatly. 

I can see your desire to keep it on one line, so Dev is nicer since it's
shorter than Qorgh, and muDev is even shorter; word-choice is something
that's easily arguable.  But I'd go so far as to say that "'oH" is the
wrong conjugation here.  It'd be like saying "The Lord am my shepherd"
because you didn't want to use an "i".  The other questions were style,
this is grammar.

>> it doesn't reflect what the original meant.  The usage is really intended
>> to convey "lack".  That is, The Lord is my Sheperd, so I lack nothing" (I
>> think some versions use this translation.  It's a better one). 

>The Klingon all-purpose-greeting "Whaddya-Want!"  makes the neH verb appealing
>I could maybe see "jineHbe'! DevwI'wI' 'oH joH'a''e'!"

Interesting!  Klingonic in style (sorta "I don't want.  You got a problem
with that?").  "jIneHbe'" does sort of leave one puzzled as to what you
don't want, but Klingon verbs can be used this way to mean "things in
general", according to TKD.


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