tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jul 06 09:42:09 1994
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*boHem*ngan bomnong
- From: [email protected] (Bill Willmerdinger)
- Subject: *boHem*ngan bomnong
- Date: Tue, 05 Jul 1994 20:35:00 -0500
yI'Ij! "Unknown" Bill Willmerdinger jatlhchu'pu' Uucp
Uu> From: ur-valhalla!ctr.columbia.edu!shoulson (Mark E. Shoulson)
Uu> Boy you don't start small! Bohemian Rhapsody barely makes sense in
Uu> English; translating it is bound to be a major-league pain. Well,
Uu> let's take a look...
In many cases, I found individual lines were fairly easy to translate. Others
were a royal pain! I got the idea for this after seeing a group of Klingons
doing the "Wayne's World" bit to Bohemian Rhapsody at Toronto Trek last year.
One thing that *I* noticed after I uploaded this, was that I had boHemngan
nongbom (be'jaw'a'vaD). Should be be'jaw'a'vo' - FROM Queen, not FOR Queen.
>ado, "boHemngan nongbom".
Uu> Well, for the title, it's nice to indicate transliteration here and
Uu> there (many of us like to use *'s around transliterated words), just so
Uu> people don't waste time trying to make sense of "boHem". "nong" is
Okay, I've done that as of the subject header of this message.
Uu> given only as a verb, and verb-noun compounds are not extremely
Uu> well-attested, and we're not sure you can freely do that. Just be
Uu> aware...
I realized that. I got e-mail from Amy West suggesting "bom nong", but I was
trying for a complex noun. After examining TKD, I found some complex nouns
that have verb elements, and the verb is always second, so perhaps "bomnong"
is more "appropriate".
>teHbej'a' yInvam
>neH teHlaw''a' 'oH
Uu>
Uu> "neH" follows the verb (or noun), unlike other adverbials.
"Every rule has an exception".... So, it would be "teHlaw''a' 'oH neH"? I'll
skip this problem in the rest of my reply.
>vIHbogh puHDaq jontaH
Uu>
Uu> You have here "he/she is capturing in moving earth". The song would
Uu> imply that it's really "I am caught...", so this should have "jI-",
Uu> unless you want to consider it clipped Klingon (note that the English
Uu> is clipped). And as to "caught", that's really more like "jonlu'pu'"
Uu> (someone has captured him/her). However, the term "caught in a
Uu> landslide" is an English idiom in the first place. You're not really
Uu> "captured" in or by a landslide, it just means you're suddenly and
Uu> unexpectedly forced to experience one. You could have fun with a
Uu> construction like "pay' jIQom", doing it in a nicely Klingonic, and
Uu> non-English, way.
I've had second thoughts about that one myself, and I may rephrase it
entirely. Possibly to wanwI'mey vISeHbe' - "I do not control events." But
I'll try your suggestion as well.
>mInlIj DapoSmoH
Uu> It's a command, right? I want you to open your eyes. So it should be
Uu> "tIpoSmoH" (plural! eyeS!)
Okay on the imperative. The plural bit... well, I tried to keep it
"singable" and the extra syllable really made it worse as it stands. Another
would have made it impossible. However, "the lack of a special suffix for
plural does not always indicate that the noun is singular." TKD 3.3.2. :-)
>chalmeyDaq Danej
>'ej Dalegh
Uu> Maybe "yIbej" insstead of "Danej". "Watch the skies". Possibly drop
Uu> the "-Daq" as well. And again. "yI-" (or "tI-") instead of "Da-".
Uu> Definitely "yI-" for the last verb, since It's just "see things in
Uu> general", not "see it".
I felt that the "-Daq" had to be there with "Danej" , but if I used "yIbej"
then I'll be short a syllable... I suppose I could always throw in a pronoun
to keep the meter... Again, okay on the imperatives.
>tuvupnISbe'bej
Uu>
Uu> Excellent.
qatlho'
>jIjatlhtaH: jIpaw ngeD, jItlheD ngeD
Uu>
Uu> You're trying to do sentence-as-subject stuff here. Note that you
Uu> have two verbs here, and no obvious way to join them. "I arrive it's
Uu> easy". I suppose if you punctuated it differently it would be okay.
Uu> "I arrive. It's easy. I leave. It's easy". We've been doing stuff
Uu> like this with things like "jIpawDI' ngeD" (when I arrive, it's easy).
This is one of the sections I really wanted input on, becasue I just couldn't
make it work. I like your suggestion.
>jISey mach, jI'It mach
Uu> This works less well. What's small? What would work very nicely is
Uu> the adverbial "loQ": "loQ jISey, loQ jI'It".
Amy said the same thing, and I'll change to that.
>nuqDaq ghoStaH SuS
>potlhbe'bej 'oH jIHmeH
>jIHmeH......
Uu>
Uu> jIHmeH? In order that I be (something)? Erk. Should probably be
Uu> "jIHvaD" and come at the beginning of the sentence (yes, that screws up
Uu> the structure, but that's life).
Okay.... Is it allowable to use noun suffixes on "chuvmey"? I couldn't
recall any examples of such. I admit that "jIHmeH" is awkward, but I at least
had a canonical use of verb suffixes in pronouns. I prefer "jIHvaD" myself,
and in fact had that in the last verse where I have "jIHmeH" in the earlier
verses.
Uu> Hey, good aspect use! Works fpor me anyway.
That's one area I've tried to get down pat. I keep refering to your HolQeD
article for examples.
>'ach DaH jIjaHpu'
>'ej Hoch vIwoDpu'
Uu>
Uu> "I've gone and thrown it all away" has nothing to do with going,
Uu> that's an English idiom. If you really want to parallel the English
Uu> construction (and I don't see much reason to), the right verb for the
Uu> job is "ruch", I think.
It has been pointed out to me before that I tend to force English idiom to fit
Hol syntax. In this case, I consciously kept as close to the original as I
could, figuring that I would work on the problem after I had a workling "beta"
version of the song.
>wa'leS poHvam naDev jIcheghbe'chugh
Uu>
Uu> I suppose "qaStaHvIS wa'leS poHvam".... I dunno, when you need the
Uu> qaStaHvIS isn't completely clear.
Why would I need it at all?
>pIpwIjDaq QommoHlu'
Uu> hey, a word for "spine". Never noticed that. Maybe "Qom pIpwIj"
Uu> might be more concise.
I agree. But it wouldn't fit the song.
(continued next message - yes, my messages get split for Fidonet!)
Qob
... How do you tell a Klingon from Kanada? He says "G'dayt, eh?"....