tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Feb 16 21:57:03 1994

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Re: 'mean'



On Feb 16,  1:43pm, marqem wrote and charghwI' opinionates in response:
> Subject: 'mean'
> 
> For some uses of the English verb "to mean" we can use jatlhlu':
>      1.     ghot nuv jatlhlu'
> literally, 'one says nuv [as] ghot'.  

     Interesting. I've never seen this construction before. Could you point
it out to me in canon? I have been tempted to try it myself, but I could not
justify the two nouns without a conjuction. It looks more like a noun-noun
conjuction, in which case it becomes "The {ghot}'s {nuv} is spoken." I don't
think that is your intent.

     The way I have come to express this is {ghot nuv je rap}. If they are
nearly the same, but not quite, I'll use {rur} instead.

> Compare such sentences as
>      2.     Qanqor Hodma' ponglu'
> literally, 'one calls our captain Krankor', which I believe is an
> accepted structure.  Sentence 1 is appropriate where we would say
> in English "nuv means ghot".  The appropriateness of the
> construction is even more evident when discussing translation:

     Same problem. "Our captain of Krankor is called." I have not really
resolved this one very well yet. Perhaps we could again say {Qanqor HoDma' je
rap} or to stretch things a bit, {Qanqor 'oH HoDma' pong}. I'm not wild about
the construction, but it seems to have examples in canon. 

>      3.     DIvI' Federation jatlhlu'

     Here, I would DEFINITELY say {DIvI' Federation je rap}.

> although one can always say
>      4.     Federation mugh DI'vI'

     I doubt it. "The DI'vI' translates the Federation." That's not really
what you want. {mugh} doesn't mean "is translated as".

     In particular, I'm dissappointed that Okrand chose to use {pong} as the
verb "name, call" instead of "be named, called". The latter would have made
things profoundly more versatile. Then if you wanted to say that you named
your pet, you could use {pongmoH} to get the same function as the current
verb, while the REST of the time, the constructions would be simpler.

     But that didn't happen. I still suggest {rap} and {rur}.

charghwI'



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