tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Aug 13 23:58:10 1994

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KLBC: Re: rI' nobmey nobwI'lu!

***KLBC***

Bryanvo':

> This is my first post; I've enjoyed reading the messages I've 
> recieved over the past few days.

Welcome, Bryan!  As the "Beginner's Grammarian," I'd like to welcome 
you to the tlhIngan Hol mailing list.  I hope you find a home for 
yourself here.

> I had heard about the Bible translation project and decided to 
> try my hand at something more "klingon-feeling".  I've been working on the 
> Havamal (a Norse teaching poem) and I submit for comments and suggestions..

Sounds like an ambitious project!

> lojmit DaHad Da'el'pa  nuqDaq jagpu'So' net Sovbe'.
>        
> "Scrutinize an enterance before passing through; one knows not where 
> foes may be seated."

First off, a minor point: watch your spelling.  *{DaHad} is {DaHaD}, 
*{Da'el'pa} is {Da'elpa'}, and *{jag} should be {jagh}.  Also, I'm not 
sure why you have {jaghpu'So'} together, unless it's a typo.  You 
can't combine nouns and verbs like this.

Your original sentence, "Scrutinize..." uses an imperative.  It's like 
saying "You there! Scrutinize!"  You need to use an imperative prefix 
on {HaD} if you want to retain this meaning in the Klingon: {yIHaD}.

I'd use some punctuation between your two sentences.  Although there's 
no discussion of punctuation in TKD, we tend to use it here, to make 
our Hol more readable.  If you're against using it (which I'm guessing 
you're not, since you've got a period at the end), then you can 
separate your sentences by putting them on different lines.

Nice use of {net}!  That's a pretty tricky concept, even for more 
experienced Klingonists (I speak from personal experience!).

> Hegh HaDIBaH, Hegh qorDu, yIhegh'egh'je
> 'ach batlh ghogh Heghbe' pongqoq Suqluta netvad.
>        
> "Cattle die, kinsmen die, you yourself must die;                       
> but the voice of honor never dies for him who has earned a good 
> name."

Again, spelling: {Ha'DIbaH},{qorDu'} {yIHegh'egh}, {Suqlu'ta'}.
You seem to leave out a lot of {'}'s; they're just like another 
consonant in Klingon; it's like leaving out the letter "t": you jus 
can' wrie a good senence wihou i.

The English "cattle," I believe, is an inherent plural.  Some Klingon 
words also have this trait, but not {Ha'DIbaH}.  It's not _absolutely_ 
necessary, but in this case, there's no disambiguating verb prefix, or 
other element, so I'd consider using {Ha'DIbaHmey}.  Otherwise, it's 
something like "the/an animal dies." [Which may also be fine; I guess 
it's a matter of style.]

You've chosen an imperative prefix on {yIHegh'egh}, so it means: "Die 
yourself!"  Which, is rather jibberishish.  It should be (following 
the English you supplied) {bIHeghnIS}.  Note, I didn't use {-'egh}, 
because "you die yourself" doesn't really make sense.  I also added 
{-nIS}, to get the "need" in there.  Also, you've got {je} adjacent to 
the previous word; it needs to stand alone.

Now, let's look at the next line.  You have ?{batlh ghogh} for 
"Honor's voice."  I think a more appropriate word choice for "honor" 
here would be {quv}, from the addendum of TKD.  {batlh} means "with 
honor," and is used as an adverbial.  Your sentence means "But, does 
not die the voice."  See, you have {ghogh} in the object position.

I'm not sure why you have {pongqoq}, "so-called name," when your 
translation gives "good name," which would be {pong QaQ}.

I know that {net} is listed in TKD as a noun, but I object to your 
using it in a compound, *{netvam}.  It's like, "this that."  Also, 
{net} is used as an object (you used it correctly above), but you've 
got no verb for it to be the object of.  Harumph.  Actually, this is a 
_very_ complex sentence, so don't feel bad.  I'd try to break it down 
into simpler pieces, and re-build the Klingon from scratch:

not ghaHvaD Hegh quv ghogh
"The voice of honor (honor's voice) never dies for him"

pong QaQ Suqta'chugh
"If he has earned ("deliberately get") a good name"

Certainly, there are other ways to translate this.  This is one way, 
and is probably the way I'd do it.

There were some really complex constructions here, and you should feel 
pretty good about this, your first attempt.  If you want to study and 
learn Klingon, this is the place to do it!  And, we're here to help, 
so don't hesitate to ask, and most importantly, don't hesitate to post 
in tlhIngan Hol!

> HoSlIj Daghur jaj

"The day, you increase your strength"?

{jaj} is just floating out there, no verb to call its own.  Why?  
Because {Daghur} has the prefix {Da-}, which includes the subject 
"you."  The subject position is already taken, so {jaj} has no home.

> Bryan

Again, welcome, and if I didn't say it before, I hope you enjoy 
yourself here!

--Holtej, Beginner's Grammarian

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