tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Apr 27 07:03:20 1994
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
Re: oops
charghwI' did a bunch of work on the spoken tlhIngan Hol of ST5. It must have
been such a fun job. I know 'coz I've done the same before myself. Overall,
he seemed to have gleaned a lot more than I did from some of these
corruptions. DaH jIjatlhbe'choH 'ej SIbI' De' potlh'e' vIja':
>Okay, so I'm cheating with DaHpo' and DaHram, but they seemed
>AT LEAST as appropriate as the ever so popular po'vam and
>ramvam. Also, I'm going to bag it and pull out some canned text.
Try {DaHjaj ram} and {DaHjaj po}. Then you don't have to worry about illegal
compounding or abuse of the temporals.
>I'm trying to transcribe ST5 and I am finding it quite
>difficult. There are many inconsistencies with other canon and
>a lot of it is simply difficult to figure out what words they
>are trying to say. If anyone else has already done this, please
>correct me where I am mistaken.
>Vixis: tlha HoD, DoS wIpuSta' (Captain Klaa, we have a target
>in sight.)
I heard {tlha HoD, DoS wIbuStaH}, but your interpretation is essentially the
same. I doubt we'll ever know for sure except from the tlhIngan Hol joH'a'
himself, or some other Paramountian personality.
>Vixis: nejwI' tIQ (A probe of ancient origin.) [Ancient probe.]
Don't forget the last word. {nejwI' tIQ *'oH*}
>Klaa: qIpmeH Qatlh'a' (Difficult to hit?) [Note: this is an
>expansion on the definition in TKD of qIp.]
Oh, yes. Remember all the stupidity that circulated in the Journal after I
sent in that loony grammatical proposition because I thought the phrase was
{qIp net Qatlh'a'}. No? Well, then, never mind.
>Klaa: (Shooting space garbage is no test of a warrior's metal.)
>[I could not figure this out at all. It sounded like {vaj 'on
>buD Daj ngeHbej DIvI'}, which which begins with gibberish, and
>then borrows from a later line.]
Check out HolQeD 2:1, pg.17-19 for Krankor's scoop on what really happened
with this line, among similar errors elsewhere in the movie.
>Klaa: nuSuv DoS vIpoQ (I need a target that shoots back.) ["I
>demand that a target fights us." Note that the verb {poQ} is
>treated as a verb of speaking, not requiring {'e'}.]
Thank you. I was wondering what he had said here. Even tho it's stretching
the grammar, I'm still glad to know what's being said.
>Vixis: (Captain, new data, hostages on Nimbus III.) [Again, I'm
>at a loss. I heard something like {HoD yoq Se' tlhaH yIbo' poQ
>De' lI' HevtaH}, which begins with garbage and ends with a
>clipped "receiving useful information." Did anybody else
>understand this better?]
No one seems to be able to figure this one out. I heard {HoD, yot SetlhaH
nIbo' dep wihebtaH}. It's right up there with {qagh < gagh < ghargh} and
other such corruptions.
>Vixis: tlhIngan ghaH wa' vub'e' (One of the hostages is a
>Klingon.)
Again, thanks for illuminating this, as I couldn't make heads or tails of it
when I listened to it.
>Klaa: latlh (And the others?) [I would have expected {latlhpu'
>je}.]
Nah. {latlh} is much neater, trimmer, and straight to the point. The plural
suffix should be implicit and {je} is imesho rather redundant.
>Klaa: vaj wo'Dujchaj ngeHbej DIvI' (That means the Federation
>will be sending a rescue ship of its own.) ["Then the
>Federation
>will certainly send their empire-ship." I wonder why he didn't
>call it a {ToDDuj}, since Okrand put {ToD} as a noun in the
>appendix for TKD. You don't suppose her pronunciation or my
>hearing is that far off, do you?]
I didn't hear {wo'Duj}. This was another one of those lines that sounded like
a cross between a creole of the Walrus People and a whole lot of hocker and
chest constrictions. To some, that pretty much constitutes tlhIngan Hol; but
to Us, it's unsatisfying. About the only word that was pronounced correctly
here was {DIvI'}. So it came out in my ears {vaj, ponDujtaj nyeHbej DIvI'}.
So, I won't say much else.
>Klaa: nImbuS wej wIghoS 'e' yInab (Plot course for Nimbus III.)
>["Plan that we follow a course to Nimbus III." Note that {ghoS}
>is being used as a transitive verb with the location as object.]
Those last two words might have been {He yInab}. There is a long pause after
{wIghoS}. Altho {'e'} does seem more grammatical, it definitely sounds much
closer to {He}.
>Klaa: 'enterprI' (Enterprise?)
*I* heard one syllable after the word for "Enterprise," so that it came out
to me as {'entepray'-'a'}. Some strange new use of the interrogative with
implicit verbs? Some languages omit verbs like that in everyday speech. Make
of it what you will..
>Klaa: "Kirk" vIjeylaHchu' (If I defeat Kirk...) ["If I can
>clearly defeat Kirk..."]
I think it was {qIrq vIjeylaHchugh}. Otherwise, where's your "if" coming
from?
>Vixis: qIbDaq SuvwI' HoSchu'na' Hoch Dun puS (You would be the
>greatest warrior in the galaxy.) [This line is definitely
>chewed up. It begins with "Warriors in the galaxy, then has a
>word that does not seem to know whether it is a noun or an
>adjectival verb, and it ends with the second half of a
>{law'-puS} comparative. Did anybody else understand this?]
I offer my speculation on this line: {qIbDaq SuvwI' SoH Dun law' Hoch Dun
puS}. The {SuvwI' SoH} takes care of the "You would be...warrior," part of
the translation, and the rest..well.. The overall meaning is sorta kinda
clear, but the grammar! (What do you expect from a law'-puS construction??)
>Klaa: nom yIghuSqu' (Maximum speed.) [Very much go fast!]
Is that a typo? I think you meant {nom yIghoSqu'}. If so, I thank you again
for shining light on another line I had made no sense of.
>Klaa: (He is good.) [It sounded like {poghuH} to me. Any ideas?]
Maybe 'twas a corrupted {po'qu'}.
>Vixis: 'ach HoD veQ wIghoSchuq veH tIn wI'el maH'e' (But
>Captain, that course will take us into the Great Barrier as
>well.) [I don't know what {veQ} is doing in there, but the rest
>of it sounds like, "But Captain, if we follow garbage, WE will
>enter the Great Barrier." Maybe the word was {Hevetlh}?]
Yes. I think it must have been {'ach HoD, Hevetlh wIghoSchugh veH tIn wI'el
maH'e'}. That wasn't too bad considering some of the other grammatical
corruptions. I don't know why he didn't use {je} after {wI'el} to carry
across the sense of "as well".
>Klaa: "Kirk" wItlha' DaHqu' (Where Kirk goes, we follow.) [I am
>surprised to see {-qu'} tagged to {DaH}, but I'd interpret it
>as "Immediately, we follow Kirk"]
Dunno. That last word sounded to me like {dlaghqu'}. I think the actor's
tongue was misbehaving during this word. I can't make out what it should've
been.
>Later, without subtitles, the superior officer commands Klaa
>with a word that sounded like {yIja'gen}. I have no idea what
>that last syllable was supposed to be. They also made a couple
>mentions of {QI'tu'} (Paradise), which they pronounced as
>{qI'tu'} and there was a {maj} and a {bej} near the end.
The yaS nIv said what sounded like {yIzheken}. Maybe {yIjatlh} with some odd
suffix tacked on. Saibok said {kuytu'} when refering to {QI'tu'}, and those
last two words were {maj} and {'ej}.
>charghwI'
Guido#1, Leader of All Guidos