tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Jun 13 20:25:45 2014

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[Tlhingan-hol] Canon surrounding order of pre-OVS elements

Robyn Stewart ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

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<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">This</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">discussion question</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">concerns the relative order of items that precede the OVS struc</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">ture of a phrase: timestamps, adverbs, and nouns bearing type-5 suffixes.<BR>
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<FONT FACE="Calibri">TKD</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> 6.1 tells us that the nouns that are neither O nor S precede the OVS.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><BR>
<FONT FACE="Calibri">TKD 6.7 tells us that the usual order is timestamp then adverb</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">, but suggests elements other than timestamps might precede the adverb.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><BR>
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<FONT FACE="Calibri">reH HIvje&#8217;lIjDaq &#8216;Iwghargh Datu&#8217;jaj</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">. shows us that an adverb can precede a noun with a type-5<BR>
</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">tlhIngan Dujmey law&#8217;qu&#8217;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">SommeyDaq</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> batlh cha&#8217;lu&#8217;.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> shows that the adverb can follow it.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><BR>
<FONT FACE="Calibri">HaqwI&#8217;&#8217;e&#8217; DaH yISam shows t</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">hat it can follow it, but is rather a special case.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><BR>
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<FONT FACE="Calibri">Do we have any canon showing a noun with a type-5</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">suffix and a timestamp in the same sentence?</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> Are there any other examples with a type-5 noun suffix and a</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">n adverb in the same sentence? (Disregarding neH and jay&#8217;)</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">I&#8217;m pretty sure we&#8217;re not so fortunate as to have an example with all three.<BR>
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(If someone whose brain is not wired for memorizing or composing wants to make a lasting contri</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">bution to the language, a concordance that made the paq&#8217;batlh searchable on such criteria would be worth its weight in gold pressed latinum.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">)</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><BR>
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<FONT FACE="Calibri">Would anyone be uncomfortable with me telling beginners that the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">information we have</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">suggest</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">s</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> that the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> timestamp</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> should precede the noun with the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">t</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">ype</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> 5, but that when</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">i</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">t improves clarity</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">,</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">the timestamp might</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> follow</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">, as the adverb does</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">in the complex phrase</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">above</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">about the em</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">b</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">lem being emblazoned on hulls</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">?</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri">My examples</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> &#8211; anyone take issue?</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><BR>
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<FONT FACE="Calibri">DaHjaj &#8216;etlhlIjmo&#8217; maQap.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><BR>
<FONT FACE="Calibri">wanI&#8217;vammo&#8217; DaHjaj</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> bInoy.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><BR>
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<FONT FACE="Calibri">- Qov</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><BR>
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<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-ca"><FONT FACE="Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-ca">&nbsp;</SPAN></P>

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