tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Feb 13 05:19:10 2012

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] qo''e' tu'bogh pagh - 'ay' wa'maH

De'vID jonpIn ([email protected]) 

<p>De&#39;vID:<br>
&gt; &gt; (ghebHom rIl beq)</p>
<p>QeS &#39;utlh:<br>
&gt; I thought the instrument used was more like a Dov&#39;aghHom &quot;whistle&quot;?</p>
<p>ghaytan bIlugh.  (&#39;ach ram mu&#39;vam; mu&#39;mey lujatlhbe&#39;bogh bIHmo&#39;, bIH poQbe&#39; &quot;subtitle&quot;.)</p>
<p>De&#39;vID:<br>
&gt; &gt; KIRK: ghorqon Qang.<br>
&gt; &gt; GORKON: qIrq HoD.<br>
&gt; &gt; KIRK: *Spock* HoD DaSovlaw&#39;bogh qalIHneS.<br>
&gt; &gt; GORKON: HoD, tagha&#39; ghom cha&#39; qabDu&#39;... qatlho&#39;qu&#39;.</p>
<p>QeS &#39;utlh:<br>
&gt; I like the cha&#39; qabDu&#39; phrasing, though since they&#39;ve never met face<br>
&gt; to face before I think qIH or perhaps even tay&#39; might be better than<br>
&gt; ghom.</p>
<p>maj.  {tagha&#39; tay&#39; cha&#39; qabDu&#39;}.  pItlh.</p>
<p>De&#39;vID:<br>
&gt; &gt; puqbe&#39;wI&#39; ghaH &#39;aSetbur[1]&#39;e&#39;.</p>
<p>QeS &#39;utlh:<br>
&gt; Like loghaD I thought that &#39;atlhetbur was canon, but I can&#39;t find it<br>
&gt; anywhere. I like &#39;atlhetbur better, but that&#39;s just an opinion.</p>
<p>ghaytan lugh pongvam.  vIlo&#39; &#39;e&#39; vIlaj.</p>
<p>De&#39;vID:<br>
&gt; &gt; QI&#39; qeSwI&#39;wI&#39;, qerla&#39; &#39;ech.  &#39;ej cheng Sa&#39; ghaH,</p>
<p>QeS &#39;utlh:<br>
&gt; It&#39;d sound more natural if you phrased this as cheng Sa&#39; ghaH<br>
&gt; nuvvam&#39;e&#39;.</p>
<p>qatlh?  chay&#39; pIm?</p>
<p>De&#39;vID:<br>
&gt; &gt; ra&#39;ghomquv DevwI&#39;&#39;a&#39;wI&#39;[2] ghaH.</p>
<p>QeS &#39;utlh:<br>
&gt; I wonder if &quot;Chief of Staff&quot; refers to the same position as that of<br>
&gt; the Joint Chiefs of Staff for the U.S. military. If that&#39;s the case,<br>
&gt; I&#39;d put this as ra&#39;ghomquv pIn&#39;a&#39;.</p>
<p>maj.</p>
<p>De&#39;vID:<br>
&gt; &gt; CHANG: reH qaghom vIneH, HoD.</p>
<p>QeS &#39;utlh:<br>
&gt; Again, ghom isn&#39;t the right verb here. qIH &quot;meet for the first time&quot;<br>
&gt; is what you&#39;re looking for.</p>
<p>{qaqIH reH vIneH}.  pItlh.</p>
<p>De&#39;vID:<br>
&gt; &gt; KIRK: vIlaj... &#39;ach vIyajchu&#39;be&#39;.<br>
&gt; &gt; KERLA: DuHo&#39;bej, qIrq...<br>
&gt; &gt; CHANG: ...latlh SuvwI&#39;na&#39; Ho&#39;mo&#39; SuvwI&#39;.</p>
<p>QeS &#39;utlh:<br>
&gt; maj.</p>
<p>De&#39;vID:<br>
&gt; &gt; KIRK: lugh...</p>
<p>QeS &#39;utlh:<br>
&gt; &quot;Right&quot; here is idiomatic; I&#39;m not sure that lugh captures it.</p>
<p>Hmmm... chaq {vIyaj} jatlh qIrq &#39;e&#39; vIchoH.</p>
<p>De&#39;vID:<br>
&gt; &gt; lurghvam ghoS.  loQ maleng &#39;e&#39; botIvbej.</p>
<p>QeS &#39;utlh:<br>
&gt; botIvbej shows too much certainty for what Kirk says in English. I<br>
&gt; would put it as chaq &#39;e&#39; botIv.</p>
<p>maj.  vIlaj.</p>
<p>De&#39;vID:<br>
&gt; &gt; CREWMAN wa&#39;: rurchuqchu&#39; Hoch chaH.<br>
&gt; &gt; CREWMAN cha&#39;: He&#39;So&#39; &#39;e&#39; yIqel.</p>
<p>QeS &#39;utlh:<br>
&gt; Perhaps pIwvetlh DalarghlaH&#39;a&#39;?</p>
<p>&quot;What about that smell?&quot;vaD Qatlh mughmeH Qu&#39;.</p>
<p>nuq qech Hech mu&#39;tlheghvam?  chaq {pIwvetlh yIqIm}.  &#39;ach ghelbogh mu&#39;tlhegh &#39;oHbe&#39;.</p>
<p>De&#39;vID:<br>
&gt; &gt; jatlhlaH nIvqu&#39;wI&#39;pu&#39; neH &#39;ej...</p>
<p>QeS &#39;utlh:<br>
&gt; maj. Not sure if you&#39;ve thought of it, but given that this line&#39;s<br>
&gt; used, I wonder if in this scene you could perhaps make use of -mey<br>
&gt; or bIH to show the crewmen are casting aspersions on the Klingons&#39;<br>
&gt; ability to use language?</p>
<p>qechvam vIqelbejqu&#39;ta&#39;!  &#39;ach chIch vay&#39; vIjatlhQo&#39;.</p>
<p>Background: Krankor told me that the reason he doesn&#39;t participate here any more is because every single discussion in Klingon ends up being sidetracked into a discussion -- in English -- about grammar.  (Is there a name for this, sort of like an analogue of Godwin&#39;s Law?  Maybe we can call this Krankor&#39;s Law.)  I&#39;d promised Krankor that I&#39;d try to use Klingon exclusively on the mailing list, and stay away from discussions/debates/arguments about grammar, unless I participated in Klingon.  </p>

<p>I did think about the issues raised by the &quot;beings capable of language&quot; distinction here: if a group of beings were incapable of speech, except for the &quot;top of the line&quot; models, is {bIH}/{-mey} used when referring to the entire group?  Would you then use {chaH}/{-pu&#39;} for just the subset of them?  I just didn&#39;t want to say anything about it so I wouldn&#39;t trigger a sidetracking grammatical discussion.  But since you&#39;ve already raised the issue now, we can discuss it.</p>

<p>{jatlhlaHbe&#39; bIH.  jatlhlaH &#39;op le&#39;qu&#39; neH}, chaq &#39;e&#39; vIlo&#39;.  vuDlIj nuq?</p>
<p>De&#39;vID:<br>
&gt; &gt; VALERIS: Qu&#39; boghaj&#39;a&#39;, loDpu&#39;?<br>
&gt; &gt; CREWMAN wa&#39;/cha&#39;: HIja&#39;, qaH.<br>
&gt; &gt; VALERIS: vaj pIpyuS yIghor.</p>
<p>QeS &#39;utlh:<br>
&gt; maj. We also have the idiom qul DIr yISop &quot;eat the fire skin&quot; that<br>
&gt; means &quot;hurry up, move quickly!&quot;.</p>
<p>mu&#39;tlheghvam vIlIj.  chaq qaq.</p>
<p>--<br>
De&#39;vID</p>

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