tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Feb 02 09:36:52 2012
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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] qungmey bommey je
I think both of you are by mistake using qoH instead of joH for lord. As I don't know the original version I thought it was supposed to be foolish husband. However doesn't {joH loDnal} mean "lord's husband" ?<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">2012/2/2 David Trimboli <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="im">On 2/1/2012 7:23 AM, Gaerfindel wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Took me several hours to translate this, recasting some as I went, but I<br>
think I got the gist. Thanks to matlh for a particular vocabulary word!<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
I'll offer some thoughts, but I'm not prepared to offer my own translation right now.<div class="im"><br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
‘unDaq ‘oH qung, lIySa’<br>
be’naloywI’ lIySa’<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
A better transliteration of Liza would be {laySa}. {ay} sounds like the word "aye," which is the sound of "i" in "Liza." You might pronounce it {lay'Sa} since a syllable with a glottal stop tends to carry the stress, while the final syllable in a noun without glottal stops tends to be the syllable with the stress.<br>
<br>
Perhaps you're making use of poetic license, but grammatically the first sentence should be {'unDaq 'oH qung'e'} "the hole is in the pot."<br>
<br>
I don't think {be'naloywI'} is a good match for "dear." It basically means "my wifey-poo," which is far too saccharine for this song, which is just saying "dear Liza, dear Liza."<br>
<br>
Klingons would probably ignore the "dear" part of the song, and just name lay'Sa.<div class="im"><br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
‘unDaq oH qung, lIySa’<br>
be’nalwI’, ‘oH qung<br>
<br>
qung yItI’ qoH’a’ loDnal<br>
HenrI’ qoH’a’ loDnal<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
{qoH'a' loDnal} doesn't really make sense. "My great lord husband"? See my comments on {be'naloywI'}, above.<br>
<br>
I'd transliterate Henry as {HenrIy}. There is no glottal stop in the name.<div class="im"><br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
qung yItI’ qoH’a’ loDnal<br>
HenrI’ yItI’qu’!<br>
<br>
chay’ qung vItI’, lIySa’<br>
be’naloywI’ lIySa’<br>
chay’ qung vItI’, lIySa’<br>
benaloywI’, chay’?<br>
<br>
Sor nItlh yIlo’, HenrI’<br>
qoH’a’ loDnal HenrI’<br>
Sor nItlh yIlo’, HenrI’<br>
Sor nItlh yIlo’qu’!<br>
<br>
‘ach Sor nItlh tIqHa’qu’<br>
be’naloywI’ lIySa’<br>
‘ach Sor nItlh tIqHa’qu’<br>
Sor nItlh tIqHa’qu’!<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
That's a lot of twisting to get extra syllables! A more literal translation would be {'ach tlhoy tIn Sor nItlh}.<div class="im"><br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
yIpe’nIS qoH’a’ loDnal<br>
HenrI’ qoH’a’ loDnal<br>
yIpe’nIS qoH’a’ loDnal<br>
yIpe’nIS!<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
For extra syllables, consider using {vaj} at the beginning of everything lay'Sa sings.<div class="im"><br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
chay’ nItlh vIpe’, lIySa’<br>
be’naloywI’ lIySa’<br>
chay’ nItlh vIpe’, lIySa’<br>
chay’ Sor nItlh vIpe’?<br>
<br>
taj yIlo’nIS, HenrI’<br>
qoH’a’ loDnal HenrI’<br>
taj yIlo’nIS, HenrI’<br>
taj yIlo’nISqu’!<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
Using {-nIS} on an imperative verb is commanding the addressee to need something. "Need to cut the knife!"<br>
<br>
Also, I think you're adding {-qu'} to things just to add syllables. Best to find something that means what you want, rather than to intensify syllables just to add length to lines.<br>
<br>
Literally, not considering meter, the line should read {taj yIlo', HenrIy} "Use a knife, Henry."<div class="im"><br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
‘ach jejHa’qu’, lIySa’<br>
be’naloywI’ lIySa’<br>
‘ach jejHa’qu’, lIySa’<br>
‘ach jejHa’qu’ taj<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
While {tlhoy jejHa'} means "too dull (having been made unsharp)," I kind of like {jejHa'qu'} to emphasize the fact that the sharpness of the knife has been undone. The {-qu'} emphasizes the {-Ha'}: "UNsharp."<div class="im">
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
taj yIjejmoH HenrI’<br>
qoH’a’ loDnal HenrI’<br>
taj yIjejmoH HenrI’<br>
DaH taj yIjejmoH!<br>
<br>
chay’ taj vIjej, lIySa’<br>
be’naloywI’ lIySa’<br>
chay’ taj vIjej, lIySa’<br>
chay’ tajvam vIjej?<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
vIjejmoH<div class="im"><br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
jejmeH nagh let yIlo’<br>
qoH’a’ loDnal, HenrI’<br>
jejmeH nagh let yIlo’<br>
nagh let yIlo’nIS!<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
If we're thinking of the original, Liza simply says, "With a stone, dear Henry." She doesn't say "hard sharpening stone." You're probably looking for extra syllables again. Without regard for meter, a literal translation would be {nagh yIlo'} "use a stone."<div class="im">
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
‘ach QaDqu’ nagh, lIySa’<br>
be’naloywI’ lIySa’<br>
‘ach QaDqu’ nagh, lIySa’<br>
QaDqu’jejmeH nagh<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
I'd prefer {tlhoy QaD nagh} "the stone is too dry."<div class="im"><br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
nagh yIyIQmoH, HenrI’<br>
qoH’a’ loDnal HenrI’<br>
nagh yIyIQmoH, HenrI’<br>
qoH’a’ yIyIQmoH!<br>
<br>
chay’ yIQ vIqeng, lIySa’<br>
be’naloywI’ lIySa’<br>
chay’ yIQ vIqeng, lIySa’<br>
be’naloywI’, chay’?<br>
<br>
‘unDaq yIqeng, HenrI’<br>
qoH’a’ loDnal HenrI’<br>
‘unDaq yIqeng, HenrI’<br>
‘unDaq yIQ yIqeng!<br>
<br>
‘ach…’unDaq ‘oH qung, lIySa’<br>
be’naloywI’ lIySa’<br>
‘unDaq ‘oH qung, lIySa’<br>
be’nalwI’, ‘oH qung…<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
A good effort. If you take any of my suggestions, remember that part of the song is repeating the same form of sentences every other verse. Don't switch between using adverbials here and not using them there. HenrIy should sing in the same form throughout, and Lay'Sa should do the same with her own form.<br>
<font color="#888888">
<br>
-- <br>
SuStel<br>
<a href="http://www.trimboli.name/"; target="_blank">http://www.trimboli.name/</a></font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
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