tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Nov 03 09:03:09 2006
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Re: Dilbert Comic in Klingon for 2006/10/24
Voragh:
> > If we can't say *{choluj} "you fail me" we *might* be able to say {jIHvaD
> > bIlujpu'} using {-vaD} to mark {jIH} "me" as the "beneficiary" of your
> > failing - but it still doesn't feel quite right.
De'vID:
>The expression <jIHvaD bIluj> "you have failed for me" reminds me of one
>stereotypical martial arts movie plot where the hero's
>(girlfriend|sibling|friend|...) is kidnapped and the hero is forced to
>lose a fight lest his (girlfriend|...) gets hurt. The (girlfriend|...)
>is rescued, of course, and tends to the crestfallen hero's wounds while
>reminding him that "the only reason you lost the previous fight was
>because of me".
I'm not sure the girlfriend|... could be considered the *beneficiary* of
the hero's failure, but I suppose it depends on your point of
view. (Perhaps the girlfriend secretly wanted the hero to fail and return
home to her?)
>Is <jIHvaD neH bIluj> grammatical? The <neH> after <-vaD> looks a bit
>odd, but I can't think of any grammar contravening that off the top of
>me head.
Me neither, although {jIHmo' neH bIluj} feels more "natural". Okrand
describes {-vaD} "for, intended for, to" in TKD (p. 28f.) thus:
This suffix indicates that the noun to which it is attached is in
some way the beneficiary of the action, the person or thing for
whom or for which the activity occurs.
Qu'vaD lI' De'vam
This information is useful for the mission.
The noun {Qu'vaD} means "for the mission", and in this sentence
{-vaD} indicates that the information is intended to be used some-
how for the mission under discussion.
The most common use of {-vaD} with pronouns is to indicate they are the
indirect object of the verb:
chaHvaD Soj qem yaS
The officer brings them food. TKD
SoHvaD 'uQ wej vIqem
I'll bring you dinner number three. CK
DaH jIHvaD yIngev
Sell it to me now! PK
vaj malopmeH tlhIHvaD nob SaSuqpu'
So to celebrate, I've gotten you all a gift. (Hallmark)
SoHvaD pagh vIjatlh, Human
I have nothing to say to you, human. (ENT "Affliction")
However, we also have these two less obvious examples:
tuQtaHvIS Hem. ghaHvaD quHDaj qawmoH.
He wears it proudly as a reminder of his heritage. S20
roD 'oHvaD juHqo' ponglu' neH
[Qo'noS] is usually referred to as simply "The Homeworld." S27
These explain why Okrand said "in some way the beneficiary of the action"
and "intended to be used somehow for" in TKD.
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons