tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Jul 31 01:15:28 2004
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RE: TKD phrase: {-meH} clause
- From: "QeS lagh" <[email protected]>
- Subject: RE: TKD phrase: {-meH} clause
- Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 18:14:48 +1000
- Bcc:
ghItlhpu' Holtej:
>Whether you think that the purpose clause is [s [vp HIvmeH] [np Duj]] (with
>{Duj} as the subject of {HIv}) or [s' [s [vp HIvmeH] [np e]] [np Duj]]
>(with
>an empty subject for {HIv} and {Duj} as the modified noun), the point is
>the
>same.
I don't see it as either of these. My interpretation is probably
[s [vp [pron {zero} referring n Duj] [v HIvmeH]]]
I'm not trying to argue for the meaning "the attack ship is cloaked". But I
nonetheless don't see the NP of {HIvmeH} as empty, but as a zero-prefix on
the verb {HIvmeH}, which is a pronominal prefix indicating third person
subject and IMHO not an empty category. So my interpretation of the whole
thing is the same as that of ghunchu'wI':
>I agree that {Duj} alone is the object of {So'}. I believe that it is also
>the subject of {HIv}. Syntactally, one or the other of these Dujmey is
>actually elided from the sentence, but as a third-person noun that elision
>works just fine. It represents the meaning perfectly. The ship is that
>which attacks, and the ship is also that which is cloaked.
>{HIvmeH Duj Duj So'lu'}
>"For a ship to attack, a ship is cloaked."
>{HIvmeH Duj 'oH So'lu'} or {HIvmeH 'oH Duj So'lu'}
>"For a ship to attack, it is cloaked." or "For it to attack, a ship is
>cloaked."
>Now leave out the unnecessary {'oH}, and toH!
>{HIvmeH Duj So'lu'}
Maybe my reasoning is a bit circular... but that's my view. I sense that
we're coming back around to that old idea of whether a zero prefix is the
same as the absence of a prefix (an issue that continues to be a conflict
for me), so I think I'm just going to leave the whole issue there.
>--Holtej (not just my name)
yajchu'. {{:)
QeS lagh
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