tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Jul 30 11:11:43 2004

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RE: TKD phrase: {-meH} clause

d'Armond Speers, Ph.D. ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

[email protected] wrote:
> ghItlhpu' Holtej:
>
>> If it were the subject of {HIvmeH}, then the sentence
>> would mean "one cloaks an in-order-to-attack-ship," (or,
>> "one cloaks an attack-ship", or "an attack ship is
>> cloaked") which isn't what the translation suggests.
>> {Duj} is not the subject of {HIvmeH} here.
>
> I think you may be confusing "subject" with "modified
> noun". A {-meH} clause modifying a noun can have both
> IMO, as I've shown before with {maghwI' vIHoHmeH taj} "a
> knife for me to kill traitors with".

Whether you think that the purpose clause is [s [vp HIvmeH] [np Duj]] (with
{Duj} as the subject of {HIv}) or [s' [s [vp HIvmeH] [np e]] [np Duj]] (with
an empty subject for {HIv} and {Duj} as the modified noun), the point is the
same.

I don't see {Duj} here as either the noun modified by the purpose clause as
a whole, or the subject of {HIv}.  {Duj}, by itself, is the object of {So'}.
The purpose clause {HIvmeH} is modifying the verb {So'}, which (independent
of the purpose clause) has {Duj} as its object.

{Duj So'lu'}
"The ship is cloaked."

{HIvmeH Duj So'lu'}
"In order to attack, the ship is cloaked."

If it were as you suggest, with {Duj} either as the noun modified by the
purpose clause {HIvmeH} or as the subject of {HIv}, then the meaning of the
sentence would be very different (as indicated by its translation).  I don't
want to put too much weight on the translation as an indicator of what the
Klingon actually means (just look at {quSDaq ba'lu''a'}, translated as "is
this seat taken?," for an example of a misleading translation), but in this
case it is illustrative of the difference.  The sentence does not mean "the
attack ship is cloaked"; it means "in order to attack, the ship cloaks."

> QeS lagh

--Holtej (not just my name)

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