tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Jul 30 02:59:50 2004

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Re: TKD phrase: {-meH} clause

QeS lagh ([email protected])



ghItlhpu' Holtej:

>If it were the subject of {HIvmeH}, then the sentence would mean "one 
>cloaks an in-order-to-attack-ship," (or, "one cloaks an attack-ship", or 
>"an attack ship is cloaked") which isn't what the translation suggests.  
>{Duj} is
>not the subject of {HIvmeH} here.

I think you may be confusing "subject" with "modified noun". A {-meH} clause 
modifying a noun can have both IMO, as I've shown before with {maghwI' 
vIHoHmeH taj} "a knife for me to kill traitors with".

Now, there's nothing wrong with the subject of {HIvmeH} being an elided 
{'oH}, referring to the ship. In that way, the {-meH} clause modifies the 
verb, rather than the noun {Duj}:

{HIvmeH (Duj) Duj So'lu'} - in order that it attacks, one cloaks a ship
{HIvmeH Duj (Duj) So'lu'} - in order that the ship attacks, one cloaks it

There's nothing to say that a pronoun's referent must precede it. Although, 
if the subject of a noun-modifying {-meH} clause is different from the noun 
that it modifies, there arises the question of a {-meH} clause having 
explicit subject AND object while modifying a noun: ??{<Qang chotmeH 
maghwI'> pu' wItu'nIS} "we need to find the phaser that the traitor will 
murder the chancellor with!"

>Look, I don't want to get into a fight over whether this is {DIlmeH Huch} 
>or
>just {DIlmeH}.  I was simply pointing out that there is at least ONE person
>out here who prefers the simpler {<Dochvetlh DIlmeH> Huch 'ar DaneH}
>interpretation.  Since the {<Dochvetlh DIlmeH Huch> 'ar DaneH} view was
>being advanced as the only possibly correct view, I wanted to point out 
>that
>I disagree.

qay'be'. Sojvammo' jISuv vIneHbe' je. batlh ngerlIj Danobta'. Your argument 
does make sense.

Savan.

QeS lagh

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