tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Jul 01 09:45:25 2004

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Re: prefix trick verbs

Steven Boozer ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 

lay'tel SIvten:
> >There's been a lot of discussion about which verbs can take objects, but I
> >wonder which verbs the prefix trick can be applied to.  All five of the
> >examples I know of so far (I'm still marking up my database) use the verb
> >{nob} (give), and three of those five are the "shine my nose" sentence 
> from PK.

ngabwI':
>I asked a similar question a little over a year ago, immediately after
>aquiring PK and running across the prefix trick for the first time. IIRC, I
>asked if this could be done with all verbs, or just the ones MO cited. (I
>believe my exact question was, "Is this a special case, or was he stating a
>general rule?") Voragh responded that MO was, in fact, stating a general
>rule [....]

In his original post which introduced what we've come to call "the prefix 
trick", Okrand wrote that

   When the indirect object (in this case, the hearer) is first or second
   person, the pronominal prefix which normally indicates first or second
   person object may be used. There are other examples of this sort of thing
   with other verbs.

Note that he didn't limit this to a specific list of verbs.  The reason you 
don't see it used more is that, logically, this trick just doesn't work 
with all verbs.  I think we've seen it used with {nob}, {'ang} and 
{jatlh}.  (I'm sure others will think of more examples.)  But you should be 
able to use it to say thinks like "I wrote you a letter", "He sang me a 
song", "Tell us the enemy's attack plans", "I made you a nice bowl of 
gagh", etc.

Here's Okrand's post in full:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Marc Okrand" <...>
Newsgroups: msn.onstage.startrek.expert.okrand
Date: 29 June 1997
Subject: Re: Some quick questions...

Neal Schermerhorn wrote:
 > 1) Does qajatlh mean anything? Some feel this is poor grammar. I'm not
 > sure what to think. Can jatlh take an object other than a language?

The object of jatlh "speak" is that which is spoken.  Thus, it's OK to say
"speak a language," for example:

     tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh "you speak Klingon"

But it's also OK to say "speak an address, speak a lecture," for example:

     SoQ Dajatlh "you speak an address" or, more colloquially, "you
     deliver an address" or "you make a speech"

To say simply:

     jatlh "he/she speaks"

implies "he/she speaks it," where "it" is a language or a lecture or
whatever.

The indirect object of jatlh, when expressed, is the hearer/listener.
Thus:

     qama'pu'vaD tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh "you speak Klingon to the prisoners"

     qama'pu'vaD SoQ Dajatlh "you make a speech to the prisoners"

When the indirect object (in this case, the hearer) is first or second
person, the pronominal prefix which normally indicates first or second
person object may be used.  There are other examples of this sort of thing
with other verbs.  For example, someone undergoing the Rite of Ascension
says:

     tIqwIj Sa'angnIS "I must show you [plural] my heart"

The pronominal prefix in this phrase is Sa-, which means "I [do something
to] all of you" in such sentences as:

     Salegh "I see you [plural]"

but when there's already an object (in this case, tIqwIj "my heart"), the
"object" of the prefix is interpreted as the indirect object, so Sa- means
"I [do something to] it for you" or the like.

This, then, brings us back to your question.  Since the object of jatlh is
that which is spoken, and since "you" or "I" or "we" cannot be spoken (and
therefore cannot be the object of the verb), if the verb is used with a
pronominal prefix indicating a first- or second-person object, that first
or second person is the indirect object.

Which is a not very elegant way of saying that qajatlh means "I speak to
you" or, more literally, perhaps "I speak it to you," where "it" is a
language or a speech or whatever:

     qajatlh "I speak to you"

     Sajatlh "I speak to you [plural]"

     chojatlh "you speak to me"

     tlhIngan Hol qajatlh "I speak Klingon to you"

There's another wrinkle to this.  The verb jatlh can also be used when
giving direct quotations:

     tlhIngan jIH jatlh "he/she says, 'I am a Klingon'"

     jatlh tlhIngan jIH "he/she says, 'I am a Klingon'"

(With verbs of saying, such as jatlh, the phrase that is being said or
cited may come before or after the verb.)

If the speaker is first or second person, the pronominal prefix indicating
"no object" is used:

     tlhIngan jIH jIjatlh "I say, 'I am a Klingon'"

     tlhIngan jIH bIjatlh "you say, 'I am a Klingon'"

There are instances where the pronominal prefix marks a big distinction in
meaning:

     tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh "you speak Klingon"

     tlhIngan Hol bIjatlh "you say, 'Klingon language'" [that is "you say
     the phrase 'Klingon language'"]

I realize that this answer to your "quick" question is probably too quick
itself.  It is not by any means a complete discussion of the several topics
mentioned and I may have phrased things not as clearly as they might be
phrased.  As a result, this answer may end up just raising other questions.
qay'be'.  We'll get to them as they come along.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------



-- 
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

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