tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Jan 29 21:41:50 2004
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Re: KLBC -meH
At 08:06 AM 1/29/2004, ngabwI' wrote:
> > Dar'Qang:
> > Specifically, the example is {ja'chuqmeH rojHom}, translated in the
>example
> > as "a truce in order to confer". I have taken this example as indicating
> > that a purpose clause can be directly used to modify a noun. I interpret
> > {ja'chuqmeH rojHom} as also identically meaning "a truce whose purpose is
> > to confer." (much like a sort-of -bogh clause).
>
>OK, I think I see what's going on here. Correct me if I'm wrong...
>The example given above, {ja'chuqmeH rojHom} "truce in order to confer", is
>an example of a {-meH} "clause" "modifying" a noun, right? Much like
>{ghojmeH taj} "boy's knife", lit. "learning knife" (KCD), {vutmeH 'un}
>"cooking pot" (KGT, pg 27), and {SuvwI' DevmeH paq} "A Warrior's Guide",
>lit. "Book for leading warriors" (Title page of TKW).
>
>All of these are examples of "oblique" {-meH} usage: it's okay to say
>something like {leSmeH pa'} "resting room", "break room", or {HoHmeH jan}
>"Killing device". In cases like these, where the subject of the purpose
>clause is not explicitly stated, but rather understood as general, a {-meH}
>clause *can* "modify" a noun, as you were getting at. (I think)
>
>When you stated that the topic of the book in {*Doch vIghojmeH paq vIlaD}
>was the author's style, that's where you lost me. To me, if {*Doch
>vIghojmeH} were to "modify" the noun {paq}, that would suggest that the book
>was written specifically for *you*, suited to *your* tastes, in order for
>*you* to learn the author's style. But now, I think I see where you're
>coming from. If you wanted to suggest that the purpose of the book was to
>learn the author's style, I would suggest {*Doch ghojmeH paq vIlaD} "I read
>the 'author's-style-learning-book'".
>
>When a {-meH} clause functions as a subordinate clause in a sentence, (I X
>in order to Y) it will usually include an indication of a subject. When it
>functions as a "modifier" for a noun, it will drop that indicator. There are
>some exceptions to this, but it functions well as a rule of thumb.
Ahhh. Ok. I was erroneously taking the S-O prefix as a free parameter to
use as I wanted to create a verb-derived free-standing "adjective" of
sorts. I think I see it now. {maj!}. Still one question, but addressed at
the bottom, after the examples.
>I think we're finally hitting a single target, as it were.
>If you'll indulge me, let me give you a couple of things to try to
>translate, using {-meH} clauses. You don't have to do this, it's only if you
>want the practice, and it will help me to see if I'm explaining this all
>correctly.
qay'be'
>Translate the following into Klingon:
>"repair station" (use either {Daq}"place" or {yaH}"duty station")
tI'meH yaH.
>"computer repair station"
De'wI' tI'meH yaH.
>"I work at the computer repair station"
De'wI' tI'meH yaHDaq jIvum.
>"I have to leave in order to work" (remember that *you* are the one working)
jIvummeH jImejnIS.
>Extra credit:
>"I have to leave in order to work at the computer repair station."
De'wI' tI'meH yaHDaq jIvummeH jImejnIS.
The question that I am left with is the following:
would computer repair stations be:
{ De'wI' tI'meH yaHmey } or {De'wI' lutI'meH yaHmey}?
As I understand things so far, the first would be correct.
Dar'Qang