tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Jan 24 07:21:52 2004

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Re: taghwI' jIH

Scott Willis ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dar'Qang" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 11:47 PM
Subject: taghwI' jIH

Welcome to the list, Dar'Qang!
My name is ngabwI', and I am the current Beginners' Grammarian. My job here
is to help out newcomers and beginners in learning Klingon, which means the
people who did it before me have decided you can trust me to evaluate your
work. When you include the letters "KLBC" in the subject line of a message,
it marks it as a beginner-level topic. This may be a question for me, or
just conversation with other beginners in general. KLBC is not limited to
participation by beginners, however. Anyone may contribute. The rule here is
that the first person allowed to discuss the grammar of a KLBC post is the
BG (that's me). Once I've gone through it, anyone can post any corrections
or additions. This keeps the beginner's confusion down to a minimum. If
possible, you should also include what you were trying to say, in English.
This will make it easier for me to make sure you are indeed saying what you
are trying to say.

The three most important web sites to be aware of, if you're not already:

The Klingon Language Institute:
http://www.kli.org

This list's FAQ:
http://www.bigfoot.com/~dspeers/klingon/faq.htm

The recently set up Klingon WikiWikiWeb:
/wiki/

The FAQ will certainly answer many of your first questions, and it provides
information about learning Klingon, using this mailing list, and KLBC.

You obviously have some experience under your belt, as your Klingon is very
good, with only a few very minor mistakes that I'll get to here in a sec.

What language resources do you have already?

Feel free to ask questions, analyze other people's messages, and attempt
your own.

You have been officially welcomed! }}: )

Since there is no English provided, I'm going to base this on what I think
you were trying to say.

> Dar'Qang:
> taghwI' jIH. qaStaHvIS jav jar tlhIngan Hol vIghoj. jav wen jItagh. ngugh
> pIqaDqoq vIbuS. jIqIDmeH pIqaDqoq vInej.

"I am a beginner. I've studied Klingon for six months. I began six months
ago. At that time, I was concentrating on 'Klingon writing'. I was looking
for it in order to tell a joke."

All correct. {majQa'}. }}: )

> Dar'Qang:
> puS ben *Klingon Unicode
> Proposal*daq pIqaDqoq vItu'pu'. jav wen malja'wIjdaq *Acronym* vIcha'meH
> pIqaDqoq vIlo vIneH. tlhaQ 'e' vIHar. *internet*daq tlhIngan pIqaDqoq
> vIgoch. ngugh tlhIngan Hol vISovchu'be'. Saghbe' tlhIngan Hol 'e' vIHar.
> mu' puS vIpIH. tlhoy ngotlh Hov leng ngotlhwI'pu' 'e' vIpIH.

"A few years back, I found 'Klingon writing' in the Klingon Unicode
Proposal. Six months ago, I wanted to use 'Klingon writing' for an acronym
in my business. I thought it was funny. I tracked it down on the internet. I
didn't fully understand Klingon then. I thought Klingon wasn't serious. I
expected few words, and that Star Trek fans(?) were overly fanatical."

Is that last sentence what you were going for?
BTW: Sometimes, {parHa'wI'} "One who likes" is used for "fan" on this list.

> Dar'Qang:
> mumerqu'ba' tlhIngan Hol. law' mu'. Daj pab. tlhIngan Hol chenmoH Hol tej
> 'e' vItu'. chIch tera'ngan Holmey HochHom rurbe'bogh Hol'e' chenmoH Hol
> tejvam. DIvI' Hol rurbe'qu' tlhIngan Hol. ngoDvam vIparHa'. law' mugh QIch
> wab 'e' vItIv je.

"Klingon obviously surprised me. It has a large vocabulary, and interesting
grammar. I found that a linguist created Klingon. This linguist purposely
created a language that did not resemble most Earth languages. It really
doesn't resemble English. I like that. I also enjoy that the noise of the
vocal sounds translates..." {nuqjatlh?}

You had me until the last {law'}, but otherwise flawless. Well done.

> Dar'Qang:
> Hol'e' chenmoHta'bogh vay' vItu'qa'. tlhoS wejmaH ben, *Esperanto* vIHaD.
> loQ vIHaD. *Esperanto* vIpar. tlhoy yabwIjDaq *utopian vision* rur
> *Esperanto* ngoQ. Daj Holmey'e' chenmoHta'bogh vay'. *utopian vision*mey
> vImuS. munuQ. *Esperanto* vIlon.

"I found languages that someone created again. Almost thirty years ago, I
studied Esperanto a little. I didn't like it. The goal of Esp. resembled a
utopian vision too much, in my mind. 'Created languages' are interesting. I
hate utopian visions. They annoy me. I abandoned Esp."
Well done.

> Dar'Qang:
> pIm tlhIngan Hol. tlhIngan Hol vItIv. qo' nab tIn Hutlh Holvam. nov Segh
> jat jon Holvam. Hov leng vItIvbej. reH tlhIngan lut vItIv. 'ach
> jIngotlhchu'be'. Daj vay' 'e' vItu': SIbI' tlhIngan Hol vIHaDDI' Hov leng
> vItIvqu'choH. DaH mumenmoH <<tlhIngan jIH>> vIjatlhDI'. qatlh?
> jISovchu'be'. chaq 'op les po jIvemDI' ghegh QuchwIj 'e' vItu'.<g>

"Klingon's different. I enjoy it. This language doesn't have a 'big world
plan'*. This language captures the tongues of an alien race.** I enjoy Star
Trek. I always enjoy the Klingon stories. But I'm not perfectly
fanatical(?). I found something interesting: When I study Klingon
immediately, I started to really enjoy Star Trek.*** Now , it surprises me
when I say 'I am a Klingon'****. Why? I don't know. Maybe in a few days,
I'll wake up with a rough forehead.<g>"
* {tIn} indicates something physically large. For meanings like "grand", we
have {-'a'} (noun suffix type1). You were probably going for something like
{qo' nab'a'} "great world plan".
** This is understood only literally: the languages goes out, finds an alien
race, and starts to remove the tongues of the individual members of that
race. I would suggest {qa'} "spirit" here.
*** Were you going for "When I started to study Klingon, I immediately began
enjoying Star Trek?" Adverbials (words like {SIbI'}, {pe'vIl}, {nIteb},
etc.) come at the beginning of the clause they are modifying. I think you
might have meant:
{tlhIngan Hol vIHaDchoHDI', SIbI' Hov leng vItIvqu'choH.}
"When I started to study Klingon, I immediately began to enjoy ST."
**** Marc Okrand has already told us that the only appropriate objects for
{jatlh} are a language ({tlhIngan Hol}, {DIvI' Hol}, etc.) and a noun
describing the speech "event": {SoQ} "speech, address", {mu'} "word", etc.)
Direct quotations take no object:
{jIjatlh: <<HolQeD vItIvbej>>} OR {<<HolQeD vItIvbej>> jIjatlh.}
"I spoke. 'I enjoy linguistics'." OR "'I enjoy linguistics'. I spoke."
In both cases, it would be understood that I uttered the exact phrase "I
enjoy linguistics."

> Dar'Qang:
> vaj bong tlhIngan Hol ghojwI' vImoj. QIt jIruchtaH. leng vItIv.

"So I've accidentally become a Klingon student. I'm proceeding slowly. I am
enjoying the trip."
Excellent.

> Dar'Qang:
> tlhIngan pong vIwIvta'. Dar'Qang vIwIv.

"I've chosen a Klingon name: Dar'Qang" {maj}

> Dar'Qang:
> jIqab jIH. tlhIHvad jImughbe'. chIch pagh DIvI' Hol mu'tlhegh vIlIng.
> jImughbe'meH jItu': QInwij Sayaj'a'?

"/I'm/ bad. I didn't translate for y'all. I produced no English sentences on
purpose.  I find in order for me not to translate(?). Do I understand my
message for y'all(?)"
I'm not sure I know what you were going for with that second-to-last
sentence.
In that last sentence, I strongly suspect that you were looking for "Do
y'all understand my message?" {Sa-} is "I-y'all". {bo-} is "y'all-it":
{QInwIj boyaj'a'?} "Do y'all understand my message?"

All in all, these mistakes are minor, and for the most part, they did not
interfere with your communication. This was an excellent first post. Well
done, and welcome to the list! }}: )

--ngabwI'
Beginners' Grammarian,
Klingon Language Institute
http://kli.org/
HovpoH 701080.9

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