tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Feb 27 08:10:14 2004

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Re: [tlhIngan-Hol] Re: Hoch placement

Steven Boozer ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 

SuStel:
>As for {tlhIngan Hoch}, there's only slim evidence as to what that might
>mean.  SkyBox card S15 has a phrase, {tera' vatlh DIS poH cha'maH wej
>HochHom}, translated, "most of the 23rd century."

this card has always been a problem.  Here's the text of SkyBox S15 in full:

   wa'DIch tlhIngan Dujmey luleghlu'pu'bogh rur qItI'nga' Duj.  tera'
   vatlh DISpoH cha'maH wej HochHom lo'lu'taH.  tera' vatlh DISpoH
   cha'maH loS bong QongmeH qItI'nga' Duj tI'ang ghompu' DIvI' 'ejDo'
  'entepray'.

   Similar in configuration to the first Klingon vessels encountered,
   the K'Tinga-Class remained in use for most of the 23rd century. A
   sleeper ship of this class, the T'Ong, was encountered in the 24th
   century by the U.S.S. Enterprise.

The grammar of the first two sentences is strange.  Note the anomalous 
position of {wa'DIch}, which has been much discussed on this list.  (The 
best solution is that it's a typo for {tlhIngan Dujmey wa'DIch} "the first 
Klingon vessels" - which matches the English text Okrand was translating 
for the SkyBox people - and not evidence of an adverbial meaning 
"first(ly)".)  I wonder whether {HochHom} is similarly misplaced, and it 
should read {HochHom tera' vatlh DIS poH cha'maH wej} "most of Terra's 
century twenty three".  Also {DISpoH} is spelled as two words {DIS poH} 
elsewhere by Okrand (HQ 8.3).  This card may simply have been badly mangled 
by the copy editors and/or type setters at SkyBox.  (It would be 
interesting to know what Okrand has to say about this card.)

>It suggests that when after a noun, {Hoch} means "all of the noun."

*IF* so, perhaps something like "the NOUN's entirety, the whole of the 
NOUN" is to be understood.

>   tlhIngan Hoch
>   all of the Klingon (not part of him)
>
>I couldn't say what {tlhInganpu' Hoch} might mean, if anything, and I cannot
>say for sure whether {Hoch} behavior can be used for other count-type words
>(like {bID} "half").

... which precedes its noun on the BoP Poster (cf. infra).

Dar'Qang:
> > Ok.  To summarize:
> > Duj Hoch : "the entire vessel"

SuStel:
>Maybe.

Best to use the quality {naQ} "be full, be whole, be entire" for this.  E.g.:

  cha' choQmey naQ tu'lu' 'ej tep choQ bIngDaq lo' law' bID choQ tu'lu'
   2 Full Decks and a Half Utility Deck under the Cargo Deck  (KBoP)

N.B.:  {choQ naQ} "full deck, whole deck" vs. {bID choQ} "a half deck, half 
a deck"



-- 
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

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