tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Apr 09 08:07:33 2004

Back to archive top level

To this year's listing

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]

Re: joj usage...

Steven Boozer ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 

ghunchu'wI':
>In the standard dialect, {chaH joj} is preferred.
>Excerpted from Skybox card S9, {qaSDI' nenghep} "Age of Ascension":
>
>   poSDaq nIHDaq je QamtaHvIS SuvwI'pu'. chaH jojDaq yItnIS lopwI'.
>
>I think this is the first known usage of a pronoun followed by a "spatial"
>noun, where logically a possessive suffix would be expected.

You expected *{jojchaj}?  Then you must be from the Sakrej region!

Okrand explains how "spatial" (or "area") nouns work with pronouns in KGT 
(pp. 24-25):

   Another interesting grammatical difference is found in the way
   prepositional concepts ("above," "below," and so on) are expressed
   in the speech typical of the Sakrej ({Sa'Qej}) region. In Klingon
   in general, such ideas are conveyed by using a special set of nouns
   ({'em} ["area behind"], {bIng} ["area below"], and others) that
   follow the nouns whose position they are indicating. Thus, "behind
   the door" is {lojmIt 'em} (literally, "door area behind") and
   "below the table" is {raS bIng} (literally, "table area below"). A
   pronoun may be used instead of a noun: {jIH 'em} ("behind me"--
   literally, "I area behind"), {chaH bIng} ("below them"--literally,
   "they area below"). In the Sakrej region, however, possessive
   suffixes are used in place of the independent pronouns: {'emwIj}
   ("behind me"--literally, "my area behind"), {bIngchaj} ("below
   them"--literally, "their area below"). Using the possessive suffix
   construction when speaking {ta' Hol} will not lead to misunder-
   standings, but it will associate the speaker with the residents
   of Sakrej, which, depending on the political situation, may or
   may not be beneficial.


>[I suspect it was originally an error that subsequently got "officialized",
>but the result enhances Klingon's flavor as a simulation of a living
>but the opposed to a strictly logical one.]

Sorry, even logically your analysis fails.  Pronouns, by definition, 
replace nouns; therefore, if you can say:

   'avwI'pu' jojDaq Qam qama'
   the prisoner stands between the guards

then you can replace the noun {SuvwI'pu'} with the pronoun {chaH}:

   chaH jojDaq Qam qama'
   the prisoner stands between them

... except, of course, in the Sakrej region!



-- 
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

Back to archive top level