tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Apr 07 15:17:03 2004

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Re: joj usage...

Steven Boozer ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 

Voragh:
> >   quwargh tach Qe' je qoDDaq Hov leng Soj DatIv
> >   Enjoy Star Trek themed food and drink at Quark's Bar and Restaurant. STX
> >
> > Note {tach Qe' je} is the second or "possessed" noun phrase of a noun+noun
> > construction, which itself forms part of a larger noun-phrase+noun
> > construction with the noun {qoD} "inside, interior":  "at Quark's
> > bar-and-restaurant's inside".

SuStel:
>I agree with you, but it's also possible that {quwargh tach Qe' je} is a
>proper noun (as it is in the English).  Okrand used {qep'a' wejDIchDaq}
>once, which has caused discussion as to whether you can put Type 5 noun
>suffixes on ordinals, or if this {qep'a' wejDIch} is a proper noun and
>treated specially.

Fair enough, though even compound proper nouns like these have to make 
grammatical sense.  Names of places of business like "PN's X (and Y)" 
shouldn't be all that unusual.

Unless, of course, the name was meant to be "marked" or strange sounding... 
not that the Klingons are particularly known for their sense of whimsy.

Voragh:
> > However, I was able to find this example:
> >
> >    'o' chuyDaH Hongghor je
> >    aft thrusters and impulse drive  (BOP)
> >
> > which is another case where the list acts as the second element in a
> > noun+noun construction:  i.e. "the aft's thruster(s)-and-impulse-drive".

SuStel:
>I don't have the poster in front of me, but surely those are "aft thrusters"
>and "impulse drive"?  I don't think Star Trek terminology ever mentions "aft
>impulse drives" (which implies impulse drives somewhere other than aft).
>
>['o' chuyDaH] Hongghor je

bIlughchu';  I should have thought this one through.  This shows the 
importance of punctuation:  {'o' chuyDaH, Hongghor je}.  Without any 
punctuation at all, {'o' chuyDaH Hongghor je} could theoretically mean 
"aft, thruster(s) and impulse drive"!  Delete this example.

Fortunately we still have pair of examples from HolQeD to illustrate this 
pattern:

    naQ megh'an 'er'In je tI'uch.
    naQ 'er'In megh'an je tI'uch.
    Grasp both ends of the stick
    ("grasp the end and the other end of the stick") (HQ 12.2)




-- 
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

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