tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Apr 07 14:01:37 2004

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Re: joj usage...

David Trimboli ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

From: "Steven Boozer" <[email protected]>

> qurgh wrote:
>
> >  SuvwI' targh je jojDaq jIba'.
> >  I sit between the warrior and the targh.
>
> I hesitated on this, but in view of this example:
>
>    quwargh tach Qe' je qoDDaq Hov leng Soj DatIv
>    Enjoy Star Trek themed food and drink at Quark's Bar and Restaurant.
STX
>
> this seems fine too.
>
> Note {tach Qe' je} is the second or "possessed" noun phrase of a noun+noun
> construction, which itself forms part of a larger noun-phrase+noun
> construction with the noun {qoD} "inside, interior":  "at Quark's
> bar-and-restaurant's inside".

I agree with you, but it's also possible that {quwargh tach Qe' je} is a
proper noun (as it is in the English).  Okrand used {qep'a' wejDIchDaq}
once, which has caused discussion as to whether you can put Type 5 noun
suffixes on ordinals, or if this {qep'a' wejDIch} is a proper noun and
treated specially.

> >I guess the bigger question in my mind now is: Can a list of nouns linked
by a
> >conjunction still act as a the first noun in a noun-noun constuction?
>
> AFAIK, there are no known examples of the case you have in mind.  (Can
> anyone else think of one?)
>
> However, I was able to find this example:
>
>    'o' chuyDaH Hongghor je
>    aft thrusters and impulse drive  (BOP)
>
> which is another case where the list acts as the second element in a
> noun+noun construction:  i.e. "the aft's thruster(s)-and-impulse-drive".

I don't have the poster in front of me, but surely those are "aft thrusters"
and "impulse drive"?  I don't think Star Trek terminology ever mentions "aft
impulse drives" (which implies impulse drives somewhere other than aft).

['o' chuyDaH] Hongghor je

[. . .]

> As a practical matter of style, if the list is too long it may be best to
> repeat {Soj}, as you did in your second example.  Long lists like these
> work in English because the genitive ending /'s/ is on each noun, allowing
> us to keep track of who possesses what.  Repeating the noun feels awkward
> to us, but probably not to Klingon-speakers, who tolerate a higher degree
> of repetition.  (A linguistic echo of the {bIraqlul}, the well-known
> redundancy in Klingon body parts, perhaps? <g>)

bIjatlhchu'.

SuStel
Stardate 4267.9

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