tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Apr 01 08:10:08 2004

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Re: ghunchu'wI' QIn vIyajmeH QaH vIpoQbej./KLBC

Steven Boozer ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 

weQqul:
> > I think this should have been written:
> >   vIparHa'qu'mo' mu'tlheghlIj'e', vIlo' je.

ngabwI':
>This means "Because I like it, I will use *your sentence*."  Punctuation
>notwithstanding, it makes perfect sense.

{vIlo' je} "I will use it too, I will also use it"

>You wish to use the other person's sentence (as opposed to your own)
>because you like it. Nothing wrong with it.

weQqul:
> > also i think i remember someone else telling me something very similar to
> > what you did about needing to use the noun on both sides of the sentence,

ngabwI':
>I'm not sure what you're speaking about, but the only thing a Klingon
>sentence *needs* to have is a verb. Period. Everything else is gravy.

This is a question of grammar vs. style.  It's perfectly grammatical, but 
the style may be a bit awkward.  I think weQqul feels that the object noun 
needs to be used in both clauses.  In the re-punctuated sentence:

   vIparHa'qu'mo', mu'tlheghlIj'e' vIlo' je.

{vI-} doesn't actually refer to anything within its own clause, but 
anticipates the stated object {mu'tlheghlIj} of the second clause.  (Do we 
have any examples of the verb prefixes being used in this anticipatory 
manner?)  And weQqul is right:  Some people feel it's better Klingon style 
to place subject and object in the first clause of a complex sentence and 
not force the listener/reader to wait until the second, or even third, 
clause; in the case of the subject, you'd have to wait until the very end 
of the sentence.  Personally, as long as the sentence is relatively short - 
so that the listener won't loose track  of the thread and become confused - 
I see nothing wrong in using anticipatory pronouns and prefixes in this 
manner.

Alternatively, one way to get around this is to repeat the relevant subject 
or object noun in both clauses:

   mu'tlheghlIj'e' vIparHa'qu'mo', mu'tlheghlIj vIlo' je.
   "Because I like *your sentence*, I will use your sentence too."

(IIRC Okrand has done this a few times, but it's early in the day and I 
can't think of any at the moment.)

OTOH, based on the punctuation, I think weQqul may have meant to write:

   mu'tlheghlIj'e' vIparHa'qu'mo', vIlo' je.
   "Because I like *your sentence*, I will use it too."

in which case this is a perfectly normal sentence, with the object prefix 
{vI-} referring to the object of the first clause.  In fact, if you write 
it this way, you don't really need {-'e'}; the sentence is emphatic enough 
with {-qu'}.  Too much emphasis can be counter-productive.



-- 
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

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