tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Mar 01 15:09:53 2003
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Re: Sentences as objects/pronouns/etc.
ja' SuStel:
>Okrand's response to using the weather verbs seems to indicate that a
>subject just isn't used for these. The subject might be anything, but when
>actually describing the weather, one simply isn't used. Notably, Okrand's
>use of /SIS/ "It's raining" might just as well be an exclamation.
I'd like to distinguish between "subject just isn't used" and "there is no
subject". When DloraH reported the discussion, he included this:
| You can also give it an object and say things like the clouds rained down
| cats and dogs. ...or something like that; you get the idea.
So the subject is the source of the precipitation, but since the subject is
*always* the clouds in a literal use of {SIS}, it...just isn't used.
>I think this spills over into other areas, like /qay'be'/. Or take another
>example: we know that one can phrase a question by adding /qar'a'/ "right?":
>
>pab mu'tlheghvam qar'a'
>pab qar'a' mu'tlheghvam
>This sentence is grammatical, right?
>
>What's the subject of /qar'a'/? Well, the statement in question.
The fact that {qar'a'} can be used *inside* a sentence makes the relevance
of this example a little questionable.
>I would say that while /'e'/ is never used as a subject, there are times
>when sentences may be the implied subject of another sentence, and times
>when the subject can remain obscure. However, I would only apply this sort
>of thinking to phrases we know it works with.
From the phrases just inside the cover of TKD: {Do'Ha'} "That is
unfortunate." The (unstated) subject is translated using the same word we
use to translate a sentence as object. Of course, the context we have for
for that phrase has a *very* indirect reference to a potential sentence as
its subject:
Q: vaj Daleghpu'['a']
v: HISlaH jawwI'
Q: Do'Ha'
What is the "real" subject of {Do'Ha'} here?
-- ghunchu'wI'