tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Dec 29 17:49:23 2003

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Re: Klingon UI Questions (off-topic)

qe'San \(Jon Brown\) ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 


----- Original Message -----
From: "...Paul" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 11:12 PM
Subject: Re: Klingon UI Questions (off-topic)


> On Mon, 29 Dec 2003, qe'San (Jon Brown) wrote:
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "...Paul" <[email protected]>
> > > Buttons, on the other hand, or menu items, in English are
predominantly
> > > verbs (with one glaring exception, the ubiquitous "File" menu item,
which
> > > is a victim of poor planning and mass adoption).
> >
> > I don't know if I misunderstood what was being said here but I always
looked
> > at "File" as used on menu buttons as the verb "to file" rather than the
noun
>
> The File menu always refers to actions to be taken on the current, open
> file.  If you look at the drop-down menus on almost any Windows (or even
> Mac) application, you'll notice that, with the exception of "File", every
> one works in verb (title) and object (list) form.  The "File" menu option,
> however, all the options beneath it are verbs, and the object of each of
> those options is the noun "File".
>
> You'll never look at a Windows menu bar the same way again.  :P
>
> ...Paul
I must admit I'd never look at the menu  bar in this way before. I can see
how "File" might be considered as a noun but I see all the options as
something I might do as an act of filing.  Yes some refer to the file I have
open but not all... Even when I do consider the current file,  to save the
file is still a part of the filing process..  You say all the sub-menu items
are verbs and this shows that "File" is a noun... "Properties" is noun  but
then perhaps that should have been under the "View" menu?

Additionally in reference to other menu option even if "File" is a noun it
isn't the only one "Tools" is not a verb it is a plural noun with verb sub
menu items under it. Looking at the current program "Message" would seem to
be a noun and the submenu items verbs. This would also indicate that "File"
refers to the verb as if it referred to the file currently open the
"Message" menu title would be redundant as the message open is the current
file.

I don't see that we can say that the English or other language use is either
Verb menu title noun sub-menu item or Noun menu title, verb sub-menu item..
I think they have always been mixed.

I do suspect that tlhIngan Hol on the other hand would be more consistently
structured... But then everyone here was looking at translations of the
Terran systems which brings me back to whether file is noun or verb.. I'm
not sure if anyone out there can answer that question apart from the
original user of the menu title "File".

Perhaps it is either verb or noun in context with the sub menu item you
select in the "File" menu.

qe'San

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