tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Sep 29 14:32:54 1998

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jItlhIj Re: Help

jIQubpa' jIjatlhmo' jItlhIj. jIDoch. jIDochnISbe' 'ach jIDoch. 
jIDogh.

Part of dealing with Klingon is taking on a gruff personna. I 
tend to be gruff with those choosing to play in this world with 
me and defensive of those who may be here by mistake and not 
choose to be here.

In this case, I think I went too far. It is likely good to 
remind people that it is indeed possible to be unable to 
unsubscribe, but I could have done so more respectfully.

Last year, when Reality got a little bigger than I was at the 
time, I made a big announcement that I was unsubscribing and 
after sending that announcement, I followed the directions to 
unsubscribe and... they didn't work. So, I tried it again. And 
it didn't work. And I was REEEEALY CAREFUL and tried it again, 
this time sending the request from every Email address I've ever 
been remotely associated with, and it still didn't work.

By then, I was receiving all these messages about my departure 
and it was too embarrassing for me to write back to the list and 
say, "Hi, guys. I'm still here. I'm trying to leave, but I'm 
still here." So, I became an accidental lurker while I wrote to 
Holtej to ask him to manually get me off the list. It took days.

It was an interesting perspective. I got to see what different 
people thought of me in my "absence".

And it definitely made me respect that there are people who 
really can follow the directions well and still not be able to 
get off the list.

So, I gave you a hard time for giving him a hard time, and now, 
I'm giving myself a hard time for giving you a hard time.

pItlh.

charghwI' 'utlh

On Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:11:44 -0700 (PDT) charghwI' wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:05:19 -0700 (PDT) KPeerke 
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > In each header it says:
> > 
> > > X-Comment:  TO UNSUBSCRIBE: email "unsub tlhingan-hol" to [email protected]
> > 
> > Hmmmm. I wonder how to unsubscribe :-)
>  
> bIval 'e' DaHarlaw' 'ach chaq ghu' DayajHa'pu'.
> 
> There are several reasons this sometimes doesn't work. It once 
> failed for me because the net admin was kind enough to manually 
> enter me into the system using the shortcut version of my 
> address ([email protected]), but when I went to unsubscribe, 
> the address was more complete. At the time, that was 
> [email protected], so when I sent a message from 
> [email protected], listserv basically said, "So, who 
> the hell are YOU? I can't unsubscribe you because you aren't 
> subscribed."
> 
> There was no way for me to identify myself with the short 
> address as the person who was trying to unsubscribe. So, the 
> automated system didn't work.
> 
> Similarly, people often change Email systems and then forward 
> mail from their old address, so the RECEIVE mail from the list, 
> but when they try to unsubscribe, the mail comes from a 
> DIFFERENT address, so listserv won't unsubscribe them.
> 
> Some people have one server for POP or IMAP to RECEIVE mail and 
> a DIFFERENT server for SMTP to SEND mail, so again, there's no 
> way to tell listserv that these two different mail hosts are 
> actually handling mail for the same person. Listserv won't 
> unsubscribe them.
> 
> And sometimes as a practical joke, one person will spoof a 
> shortcut version of another person's Email address and subscribe 
> them to the list just to bother them. Then the person who 
> doesn't know how they got subscribed finds themselves unable to 
> unsubscribe. Similarly, if someone has an Email address they are 
> not using, they could forward it to someone else who would again 
> receive the mail from the list, but would not be able to 
> unsubscribe.
> 
> And sometimes people read Email with Eudora or Netscape and 
> simply have their mailer misconfigured so that it doesn't report 
> the correct Email address to listserv which, of course, can't 
> identify them as people who are subscribed, so it won't 
> unsubscribe them.
> 
> So, yes, some of the time, and perhaps even MOST of the time, 
> people asking to unsubscribe are simply clueless and could 
> unsubscribe if they followed the simple directions. Meanwhile, 
> YOU have no way of knowing if this is true or if the people are 
> suffering one of the above conditions (or something I have not 
> thought of) which doesn't ALLOW them to unsubscribe without 
> human intervention. 
> 
> Meanwhile, those who CAN intervene are human beings who don't 
> spend their lives sitting by the keyboard, waiting to respond to 
> these messages. Sometimes it takes a day or two. Or a week. And 
> meanwhile, the person who wants to be unsubscribed is getting 10 
> or 20 or 50 messages a day from a list they don't want to be on. 
> It is understandable that they are frustrated.
> 
> So will people PLEASE not take this as an opportunity to flame 
> people you don't know, assuming that you are smarter than they 
> are. Maybe THEY are the ones who are savvy and YOU are the one 
> who is clueless.
> 
> It could happen.
>  
> > grtjns Peerke,
> 
> charghwI' 'utlh.

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