tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Sep 04 15:43:01 1998

Back to archive top level

To this year's listing

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]

RE: KLBC: Practice with -meH

lab tuv'el:
> 
> KLBC - Practice with -meH
> 
> 
> 'ay' wa' - 
> 
> ja' pagh:
> > Here are a few English sentences to translate. They should all 
> > be translated with a <-meH> clause. I wrote these for tuv'el, 
> > but anyone should feel free to give them a try. The last one 
> > is a bit harder.
> 
> > In order to buy a new ship, I need to make lots of money.
> Duj chu' vIje'meH Huch law' vIbajnIS.

majQa'. I was hoping someone would use <baj>, and preparing to scold
anyone who used <chenmoH>.


> > I sang to the chemvaH to calm her down.
> vIjotmoHmeH chemvaHvaD vIbom.

Almost. The sentence is a little clearer if the <chemvaH> is the object
of <vIjotmoHmeH>. If you do this, you can either put in an <'oHvaD> or
assume the listener will figure out what you mean. In either case, your
verb prefix is wrong: <jIbom>.

chemvaH vIjotmoHmeH jIbom.


> > The prisoner escaped by making a tunnel.
> narghmeH 'och chenmoH qama'.

majQa'. This one actually works with the <narghmeH> modifying the <'och>
OR the <chenmoH>. It could be either, but both have the same meaning.
<narghmeH qama', 'och chenmoH> would also work, but it can only modify
the verb.

> > I obviously need to hunt before I can eat. 
> jISoplaHmeH jIwamnISba'.

This is fine, but it's probably better without the <-laH>.

> > The bird of prey didn't have enough power to raise shields.
> botjan chu'meH HoS yap Hutlh toQDuj.

majQa'. pup.


> 'ay' cha' -
> 
> > > 'ar QIH chenmoH mogh'e' romuluS HIQ tlutlhtaHvIS?
> > > "How much damage did Mogh cause while he was drinking 
> > > Romulan ale?"
> 
> > The minor stuff first. You misspelled <HIq>. <'ar> always 
> > goes AFTER the thing being quantified, not before. I'm not 
> > sure why you used <-'e'> on mogh. It's not wrong - I am 
> > just wondering.
> 
> I was trying to identify the head noun of the first clause so 
> no one would be confused by the string of nouns in the middle 
> of the sentence.  I know that's one of the most confusing 
> things for me when I look at what others write, just trying 
> to figure out which words form each clause, and how they 
> relate.

OK then. This does put a bit of emphasis on the noun with the <'e'>, but
that is often OK.

> 'ay' wej -
> 
> > > nI'qu'meH tera'Daq jIyIntaHmo' jItunchoHtaH; reghuluS 'Iwghargh 
> > > vIrur jay'.
> > > "I have been living on Earth so long, I am becoming as soft as a
> > > freakin' Regulan bloodworm."
> 
> > The second bit of the sentence is fine, but the first bit <nI'qu'meH
> > tera'Daq jIyIntaHmo' ...> just doesn't work too well. Let's try to
> > figure out how to say this more easily. The usual way of English
> > speakers to say "for a long time" is to simply drop a <qaStaHvIS poH
> > nI'...> at the beginning of a sentence and go on, but that is 
> > not very original. 
> 
> > Here's what I suggest: <nI'qu'mo' tera' vIDabmeH poH ...>. 
> > The main verb here is <nI'>, and there is obviously no object. 
> > The subject is the interesting part: <tera' vIDabmeH poH> - 
> > "the period in order that I dwell on Earth". This is yet 
> > another case of a <-meH> clause modifying a noun, and the 
> > English translation does sound odd. The Klingon is quite
> > natural though.
> 
> This is a good example of what confuses me so much.  The construction:
> /nI'qu'mo' tera' vIDabmeH poH/  How can you tell if /tera'/ belongs to
> /nI'qu'mo'/ or with /vIDabmeH/?  I realize that "Because the Earth is 
> very long" makes no sense, but at times it can be VERY challenging to 
> figure it out.  Help!  What do you do?

Well, I'll apply charghwI''s technique of going one word at a time. With
clearly written Klingon, this almost always works well. With obscure,
convoluted Klingon, it doesn't help that much.

nI'qu'mo' - because something is very long
nI'qu'mo' tera' - because the Earth is very long??? Makes no sense
nI'qu'mo' tera' vIDabmeH - AHA! <tera'> must be the object of <vIDabmeH>
etc.

The best advice I can give you on this is to keep your noun phrases
fairly short in your own writing and to look carefully at others
writings for this sort of thing. There will be ambiguities (there are in
any language), but a skilled speaker will let you know what is what
through context, intonation, punctuation, flying rodents, etc.  You will
get the hang of it after seeing it a few zillion times.


> 'ay' loS -
> 
...


> 
> 'ay' vagh -
> 
> > > > > 'ach chongba' botlh nItlhwIj...  qablIj HI'ang!
> > > 
> > > > jIjangQo' jay'!
> > > 
> > > "jIjangbe' jay'!"  I won't freakin' answer!
> > > "yIjangQo' jay'!"  Don't friggin' answer!
> 
> > Time for a little explanation of <-be'> and <-Qo'>. <-be'> 
> > is simple negation. <jIjangbe'> could mean "I didn't answer", 
> > "I do not answer", or "I will not answer", but these are all 
> > just statements of fact. If I want to say that I *refuse* to 
> > answer, I say <jIjangQo'>. 
> 
> > Note that often non-imperative verbs with <-Qo'> get translated with
> > "won't", and "won't" is a bit funny in English. Sometimes it's used 
> > in a simple future tense statement of fact, but it often means that 
> > the subject refuses to do whatever it is. Klingon does not have this
> > problem. The following two sentences, which can both be translated 
> > "I won't sleep tonight", are quite distinct.
> 
> > DaHjaj ram jIQongbe'.
> > DaHjaj ram jIQongQo'.
> 
> I looked (briefly) for the reference to this use of -Qo', but 
> could not find it.  (and alas, I do not have my reference 
> materials here in front of me as I write.)  I remember in the 
> description on rovers that -Qo' was the imperative equivalent 
> of -be'.  It explicitly said -be' cannot be used with 
> imperatives, and I thought that implied that -Qo' could not 
> be used outside of imperatives.

>From TKD: "This negative suffix is used in imperatives and to denote
refusal." The example we are given is <choja'Qo'chugh>, so it certainly
can be used on non-imperatives.

> 'ay' jav -
> 
...


> 'ay' Soch - mu'tlheghmey chu'
> 
> bIlugh; Sor bIrur.  be'nalwI' SosnI' maw' ghaHlaw' ngem 
> Ha'DIbaHqoqvetlh.
> "You are correct as a tree.  That so-called forest animal is 
> apparently my wife's crazy grandmother."

You need to fix a verb prefix <Sor Darur>, a typo <SoSnI'>, and you need
an <-'e'> on the end of <Ha'DIbaHqoqvetlh>. I am not going to ask where
this sentence came from - I don't want to know. ;-)


> Qo'noS noHwI''a' qaDlaHmeH bolwI' yIqem.
> "Bring the traitor so that he may face the supreme judge of Kronos."

I'm not sure a traitor would "challenge" the Supreme Judge, and if you
were going for "face", that's <qab>, and it's only a noun. Another verb
would be better. Other than that, this is fine.


> Qovpatlhmey QIp tulob!

I think you meant <tIlob>. I'm also not sure about the proper plural
suffix for <Qovpatlh>. I would tend to go with <-pu'>, but this is
certainly a matter of debate.


pagh
Beginners' Grammarian

Back to archive top level