tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun May 10 14:54:00 1998
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A Matter of Honor
Qermaq wrote:
|ghItlh Qov:
|>DanaDHa'lu'ta'. batlh DaHutlhchu'.
|
|I would prefer to write <DanaDHa'lu'ta'. quv DaHutlhchu'> to avoid the
|synonymous noun/adjective. <batlh DaHutlhchu'> *could* mean "You lack it
|honorably."
It *could*, but that would be gibberish except in a VERY specific context.
What does "You lack it honorably" actually mean? Nonsense options are only
confusing to foreigners; native speakers wouldn't even consider them in the
first place and, therefore, wouldn't be confused... unless they're
listening to a foreigner of course.
|BUT - is there a MO distinction between <quv> and <batlh> in their nominal
|use? I don't recall one, but if I am wrong, this suggestion might be
|incorrect.
That being said, I agree with Qermaq that {quv} is more appropriate here.
The difference, if any, between the nouns {batlh} and {quv} has been
discussed several times on the list with no clear consensus. In short, I
tend to view {batlh} as Honor in general or the abstract, while {quv} is
one's personal honor, reputation or "face". For example, there is Kahless'
famous {batlh 'etlh} "Sword of Honor" (cf. SkyBox card S8). Also the
proverbs:
batlh potlh law' yIn potlh puS.
Honor is more important than life. (TKW)
batlh qelDI' tlhIngan, lumbe'.
A Klingon does not postpone a matter of honor. (TKW)
The key to the difference between the two, I think, is in the untranslated
(and therefore frequently overlooked) phrase in the beginning of Power
Klingon which the Klingon merchant says before he draws his disruptor and
fires at the confused Terran:
quvwIj DatIchpu', tera'ngan.
[You have insulted my honor, Terran.] (PK)
The idiom {quv tIch} "to insult (someone's) honor" is used again:
tlhIngan quv DatIchDI' Seng yIghuH.
When you insult a Klingon's honor, prepare for trouble. (TKW)
And just to confuse matters, we also have:
batlhHa' vanglu'taHvIS quv chavbe'lu'.
One does not achieve honor while acting dishonorably. (TKW)
Others may interpret these phrases differently as there does seem to be a
certain amount of overlap. However, for the idiom in question, {quv Hutlh}
"to lack honor, to be without honor" has been used twice:
quv Hutlh HoHbogh tlhIngan 'ach qabDaj 'angbe'bogh.
A Klingon who kills without showing his face has no honor. (TKW)
'ang'eghQo' quv Hutlhbogh jagh neH ghobtaHvIS ghaH.
Only an enemy without honor refuses to show himself in battle. (TKW)
*{batlh Hutlh} does not appear anywhere in canon.
vay' quv vItIchpu'be' 'e' vItul.
Voragh