tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Jul 16 11:35:36 1998
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Re: KLBC suffixes
- From: Robyn Stewart <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: KLBC suffixes
- Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:37:31 -0700 (PDT)
A lot in this. PLease make it worth my while and examine the
corrections.
---Paul Gibbons wrote:
>
> Qov said I needed to practise my V9 suffixes so I've practised all
the types. Boring.... bear with me!
qetlhbe'. yablIj QapmeH mIw Da'ang. vIpojlaH. :)
> V1 jIqIp'egh (I hit myself)
> maqIpchuq (we hit eachother)
> V2 maSoprup (we are ready to eat)
> SajwIj Daje'vIp (you are afraid to feed my pet)
qay'be'
> V3 Dah Du' maghoschoH (now we proceed to the farm)
Shift key not working? DaH & ghoS. Also, ghoS is a tricky one, the
destination is its direct object.
Du' wIghoSchoH
/-choH/ indicates change or onset. It's a bitlike differntials in
math. If the verb itself already indicates change, then adding
/-choH/ indicates a change to the change.
Du' wIghoS - we proceed to the farm
Du' wIghoSchoH - we're starting to proceed to the farm. You might say
this as you load the car, or just as you take the turn off that
decided whether you're going to the farm or the spaceport.
yIH vImoj - I'm becoming a tribble.
yIH vImojchoH - I'm starting to turn into a tribble.
> loDnI'wI' vIqotlhqa' (I tickle my brother again) (those
were the days...he's 6'2" & 150lbs heavier than me
maj.
now!)
> V4 not sure about the concept here.....
> QumwI' vIchermoH (I set up a communications device)
/-moH indicates causing something to happen. Like with /-choH/, if
the verb already has the concept of causing something to happen in it,
adding /-moH/ reduplicates that, causing something to cause something
to happen.
So /QumwI' vIchermoH/ means "I cause a communicator (not usually
station, just the handheld thng) to be established." You gave an
order, perhaps.
chal HurghmoH 'eng - "A cloud darkens the sky."
not vutpa' vISay'choHmoH - "I never clean my kitchen" (literally, "I
never cause my kitchen to become clean")
> V5 vIchoplu' (something bites me)
> tachDaq SuvwI'pu' tu'lu' (there are warriors in the bar)
> juHwIjDaq targh leghlu' (someone sees a targh in my home)
maj. The idea being that some one observed or bit, but that who it
was is irrelevent to the sentence. You might also say "I've been
bitten" and "A targ has been seen in my home."
> V6 qaleghchu' (I clearly see you)
Not quite. It's "I see you clearly."
/-chu'/ tells you that the action of the verb is done to perfection,
completion, done utterly.
If you want to talk about how evident it is that you see me, use
/-ba'/, /-bej/ or /-law'/.
"I clearly see you." is /qaleghbej/ or /qaleghba'/ depending on how
clear you think it is that you see me.
> puq rojlaw' ( the child is apparently sick)
look up error and sentence order error.
/roplaw' puq/
> V7 paqvam vIlaDpu' (I have read this book)
maj.
> wep vIje'ta' (I have bought the coat!)
maj. Do you know the difference?
> tajwIj vISaY'taH (I am cleaning my knife)
Ah ha. /Say'/ is *be* clean. You just learned it above. And isn't
cleaning an action with a clearly defined finishing point? I'd
understand /juHwIj vISay'choHmoHtaH/ but I think /tajwIj
vISay'choHmoHlI'/ is the way to go.
> paqvam vIlaDlI' (I am reading this book)(in anticipation of
finishing it)
maj. If it was one of those book you just leave around in the
bathroom and read snatches of, when I hammered on the door and asked
what you were doing you could answer /paqvam vIlaDtaH/.
> V8 qaqIHneS (I am honored to meet you (1st time meeting))
Unoriginal, but correct.
> V9 here goes....!
> lojmIt DaSoQmoH qajatlhDI' (close the door when I tell you)
> bIjachchugh vaj qaqIpqa' (if you shout out I will hit you
again)
> HIjatlh qaqIppa' (speak, before I hit you)
> jISoptaHvIS chobomlaH (while I am eating you can sing to me)
maj. Note that HIjatlh is 'speak to me' and that many people here
find it more comfortable to have -pa' and -DI' clauses before the main
clause. TKD does allow you to do it either way, it's just that it's
often easier to keep track of what's going on that way.
> not sure about 'bogh'......weplIj nIHpu'bogh loD vIleghpu' (I
saw the man who (which)stole your coat)
Right. Except for the fact that you seem to be using perfect as
simple past. Still. Do me a favour. For a little while, only use
perfective where it is required. When I can see that you know what
you are saying with perfective you can use it any ambiguous place you
want. Right now I feel that you are using perfective every time you
use English past, and I also feel like you are completely ignoring me
when I tell you to stop it. Please read the long posting I wrote for
Antony about the perfective (and/or charghwI''s, and/or the FAQ).
weplIj nIHpu'bogh loD vIleghpu'
means:
I have seen the man who had stolen your coat.
I had seent he man who had stolen your coat.
I will have seen the man who had stolen your coat.
I will have seen your coat the man had stolen.
I had seen the coat the man will have stolen.
And variations thereon. The point is that the perfective is awkward
and meaningless in this context (I'm griping), and that the object
seen could have been the coat or the man (I'm getting ready to teach
you how to show the difference).
If there are two possible "heads" of a bogh clause and you need to
disambiguate, put /-'e'/ on the head noun.
weplIj nIHbogh loD'e' vIlegh.
"I saw the man who stole your coat."
weplIj'e' nIHbogh loD vIlegh.
"I saw your coat that the man stole."
> ditto 'meH'.....waqmeyvam vItoQmeH vISaY'taH (I am cleaning
these shoes in order to wear them)
> word order doesn't seem right somehow...
Same error on Say'moH, a typo on tuQ, and an aspect suffix that
doesn't imply progress towrads your goal, but -meH *is* properly used.
waqmeyvam vItuQmeH vISay'choHmoHlI'
"I am cleaning these shoes in order to wear them."
If you said /-taH/ it would kind of contradict your clear objective of
finishing cleaning them.
> qaHoH qaparmo' (because I dislike you, I will kill you)
Correct, but it erads easier if you put the -mo' clause first
..
> wa'leS DaleghmeH bIyInjaj (May you live to see > tomorrow)
nod. May be quibbles about what that actually means, but it's /-jaj/
used correctly.
> 'ghach'...er...I'm guessing here...
> ghojmoH - instruct
> ghojmoHghach - an instruction..?
That's not bad. Good -ghach examples are hard to come up with (i.e.
used correctly, -ghach is rare).
> ghojmoHghachmeyvam tI'Ij (listen to these instructions!)
We don't believe 'Ij is transitive. 'Ij means listen, not listen to.
So say /tIQoy/. That seems to be the way it's done in Klingon. Look
at "Listen to the voice of your blood" /'IwlIj ghogh tIQoy/ (I think
that's the quote).
> nuqDaq tlhIngan Quch vIje'?
> Where can I buy a Klingon headpiece? (Quch = forehead, nearest
word I could find)
> tuQaH'a'? tlhIngan Sut vIchenmoH 'ej tlhIngan quch vIneH.
tlhIngan Daquch DaneH'a'? tlhIngan vIquch vIneH je. tlhIngan Quch
vIghaj. chenmoH jupwI'. I live in a city known as Hollywood North,
so there are lotsof people with costume/makeup skills. Mine is a
one-use forehead that was used once by the person who paid for it and
then used many times by me. The edges are no longer invisible after
that first use. It would lose marks on a masquerade stage, but it's
still good enough for qep'a'. Quchmey Sar lungevlu'. Huch 'ar
Danobqang?
==
Qov - Beginners' Grammarian
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