tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Jan 31 17:36:55 1998
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Re: KLBC:*Spice* be'Hommey che'Ha'qu'
- From: Qov <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: KLBC:*Spice* be'Hommey che'Ha'qu'
- Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 17:35:46 -0800
At 18:12 98-01-27 -0800, paqngevwI' wrote:
}>Grin. I'm listening to the radio arts report. These sentences may be a
}>little easier.
} Not easier yet, but there's light at the end of the tunnel...
Some of the sentences I gave you DO appear to be a bit much for your current
ability. I'd guess your ability hasn't declined so I must have messed up
and given you the wrong level. Sorry about that. qamoghmoH 'e' vIHechbe'.
I hope I don't embarrass or insult you with the comments in this, either. I
know you've not been doing this long. I know it takes time to learn. I
think you've already learned some things that most people don't learn right
away but missed out on some I would expect you to have. Must be a result of
the conversations on the list since you joined.
}>Children love these women's songs.
} be'mey bommeychaj tIvbej puqmey
Ah interesting errors. Easy problems to fix, though. You have the basic
sentence structure right.
First off, Klingon has three differnt plural suffixes. {-mey} is for
things. {-Du'} is for body parts. {-pu'} is for people (i.e. language
users of any species). If you use {-mey} on a noun that should take another
plural, it gives the idea of those things beeing dispersed. So {puqmey}
would mean "children all over." That could pass, if you meant it, but I
think you just used the wrong plural, qar'a'?
Secondly, possessives: There are two ways to make a Klingon possessive.
One is with the noun-noun construction and the other is with the possessive
type 4 noun suffixes. We don't use both at once any more than we say
"*these women's their songs." That's what you've got above.
{bommeychaj} - "their songs"
{be'pu'vam bommey} - "these women's songs"
And that answers the third point: you didn't include the idea "these" in
your sentence. Use the N4 suffix {-vam} (TKD 3.3.4) on the noun that
"these" applies to, as I did above.
{be'pu'vetlh bommey tIvbej puqpu'}
}>The group was formed for five women to sing songs and become famous.
} ghom chen vaj bom qoj noy vagh be'mey
} [no subjunctive mood in Klingon - how to recast?]
This isn't subjunctive. You need to use the V9 suffix {-meH} to write this
one. Also re-read TKD 5.3 on selection and placement of conjunctions.
}>They will be famous for one year.
} wa'DIS noypu'
Look at the proverb in the appendix about the accomplishments of a running
man in the course of a single night. That's how we expres a duration of
time in Klingon.
}>When one year has passed, everyone will forget them.
} bIH vInDI' wa'DIS Hoch lIj
Ouch! I'd almost believe this sentence wasn't written by the same person
who had the word order perfect in the first sentence. Think of this as two
clauses: "one year has occured" and "everyone will forget them." When
you've written those, put {-DI'} on the verb of the first and append the
second, to get "When one year has occured, everyone will forget them."
}>Which girl do you like best?
} be'Hom DaparHa''a'?
This correctly says "Do you like the girl?" To translate my sentence you
must recast to "Choose (or identify) your favourite girl."
}>Plastic clothing does not excite me.
} jIH mep Sut muSeymoHHa'
You knew how to do a better job here. OVS word order. The subject is the
plastic clothing.
{muSeymoHbe' mep Sut}
Two points about {-Ha'}.
1. It always directly follows the verb, despite being a "rover."
2. It denotes undoing or even the opposite, not simple negation.
{muSeyHa'moH} "It turns me off"
{muSeymoHbe'} "It does not excite me."
(Note to those who question {mep Sut}: I now know I can use {mep Sut} for
plastic clothing because of {baS 'In} and {Sor Hap 'In} from KGT.)
}>Their names are funny.
} Huj pongmeychaj
I was thinking of {tlhaQ}, but the word "funny" can mean {tlhaQ} or {Huj},
so: qarchu'.
}>Apparently only one of them can sing.
} wa'Hey neH bom
WORD ORDER! This says "She sings an apparent one only." I was looking for:
{bomlaHlaw' wa' neH}
The "apparently" refers tot he certainty of the assertion, implying a type 6
verb suffix. If it were a noun that you were unsure about, then you would
use the noun suffix {-Hey}. Note the use of the ability suffix {-laH} for
"can sing."
}>I think I'll see their movie (presentation) before I decide if the critics
}>(attackers) are right.
} muchchaj vIlegh 'e' Qub HIvwI' lugh wuqpa'
lugh HIvwI'pu' - "the critics are right"
vIwuqpa' - "before I decide"
lugh HIvwI'pu' 'e' vIwuqpa' - "before I decide that the critics are right"
muchchaj vIleghlaw' - "I think I will see their movie"
(Here again {-law'} denotes your uncertainty. You THINK you will see the
movie, you're not sure.)
lugh HIvwI'pu' 'e' vIwuqpa' muchchaj vIleghlaw'.
Of course now that I put the pieces together I see that the Klingon order
implies that {-chaj} refers to the critics. To clear this up I would write
either:
lugh HIvwI'pu' 'e' vIwuqpa' much vIleghlaw'.
or
lugh HIvwI'pu' 'e' vIwuqpa' be'Hom much vIleghlaw'
I guess that one was hard. Simple thoughts can engender complex sentences.
}>The first sentences were about tribbles and the second sentences were about
}>the Spice Girls.
} yIHmey'e' wa'DIch mu'tlhegh 'ej *Spice* be'Hommey'e' cha'DIch
mu'tlhegh
You no verbs in this sentence how you it anything? :) Re-cast it with the
verb {qel}, and look up where the ordinal numbers go relative to the nouns.
I could tell you the section, but you need to re-read the dictionary looking
for it more thna I do.
Feeling mean today, Qov?
}How can we tell them apart?
} chay' DIchevlaH'a'?
} [doesn't the {'a'} render the {?} superfluous?]
It does. {chay' DIchevlaH} - "how can we separate them?"
chay' DIngu'laH - "how can we identify them"
I don't remember what if anything I had in mind.
}>Is Qov trying to make me ill?
} jIH muropmoH'a' Qov?
Pronouns are unnecessary whenthe prefixes imply them clearly. The redundant
{jIH} makes it sound like you are saying "Is Qov trying to make ME ill?"
perhaps implying that Qov or someone else is already ill? :)
Oddly, you jumped into some sentences that were very hard and didn't do to
badly, but now I find you missed out on some basics. I may be insultingly
easy here, but I'm trying to cut back to a level where you make no real
mistakes and build from there. That's why I urge you to write sentences of
your own, not translations, of your own devising. They usually come out at
about the level a person can handle. You are also quite free to follow up
and tell me you don't WANT no stinkin' practice sentences. I do 'em because
they are easy to check for me, most people seem to like them, and I think
they are a good way to learn a bit at a time -- when the sentences aren't
too fancy. Maybe it was because I was listening to the radio.
I will learn Klingon.
These sentences are easy.
The blue starship attacked the red planet.
The red planet exploded.
The happy scientists use their important paraphernalia.
Qov [email protected]
Beginners' Grammarian