tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Jan 29 13:57:39 1998

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Re: KLBC Nature Phenomenon (rain)


My message I started:

>>Excuse me for jumping in at the deepend here but surely the 'subject'
>>of  - rain (v) - is the weather (or possibly the atmosphere/sky).
>
>"Surely"?  Hardly.  I can think of three reasonable subjects and one
>rather odd fourth possibility without trying
> hard at all.  Until we get some sort of "real" example of these
> words in use, it's all going to be conjecture.
>
>
>>  The 'object' would then be the noun which is rained upon
>> eg the house, the ground, the hill, the region and so on.
>> Maybe even 'the event/celebration'.
>>
>
>If that were the case, the verb would probably have been stated as
>meaning
>"rain on" instead of simply "rain".  Based on the examples you give
>later,
>I suspect you're just confusing a locative (a noun with the suffix
>{-Daq})
>with an object, and you really don't consider the thing being rained on
>to be the object.
>



I'm sorry but I don't profess to understand all about object/subject
talk but I am trying.   To be honest I'd never heard of object/subject
of  anything in a language before I started on tlhIngan Hol.  I am
trying to get to grips with the theory at the same time as learning
the language.

However, thanks to everyone who has replied to my message and others
resulting from it. I've learnt a lot.


I now understand my mistake and yes I did think   (n)-Daq   was the
object (SILLY ME) but after re-reading my TKD and other grammar books
I think I see where I was going wrong.

To test myself in this respect I'm going to waffle on a bit more.

A direct object of rain (v) could possibly be 'water'  as in 

< QaSwI'Daq  bIQ  SIStaH  muD Dotlh <> the weather rained water on my
troops > 

although what else it would rain I don't know (that's not a request
for an answer, before someone starts talking about frogs or whatever).

Following on from that I was thinking doesn't that make the
sky/atmosphere an indirect subject as in where the water is coming
from and not what is actually raining. ???

SISlaH muD Dotlh  'ach SISlaHbe' chal
The weather can rain but the sky can't.

Can you say  <n-5 n-5 O v S >:

chalvo' QaSwI'Daq  bIQ  SIStaH  muD Dotlh
>From the sky the weather rained on my troops

In saying that I've just considered that I might have it round the
wrong way as in weather & sky. With this thought assuming you can say
<n-5 n-5 O v S> I got: 

Dotlhmo' QaSwI'Daq  bIQ  SIStaH  muD Dotlh
Due to the weather the sky rained on my troops. 

Second thoughts I don't like that.

 qe'San




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