tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jan 26 07:42:25 1998
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Re: KLBC Poetry
- From: "David Trimboli" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: KLBC Poetry
- Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:56:27 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Anderson <[email protected]>
To: Multiple recipients of list <[email protected]>
Date: Sunday, January 25, 1998 1:16 AM
Subject: Re: KLBC Poetry
>ja' SuStel:
>>{-pu'} (and {-ta'}) DOES mean that the action is complete, not just that
it
>>occurred before the time context.
>
>Must an action being complete imply that the state described by that action
>is no longer true? If the rock's being present is complete, I don't see it
>as indicating that the rock is now absent.
In Klingon, I think it does.
SaH nargh
Describes a situation in which you have a subject, {nargh}, existing in a
state, {SaH}.
SaHpu' nargh
Describes a situation in which you have a subject, {nargh}, in a state which
is complete, {SaHpu'}.
>jupwI' nentay lopta' ghaH. nenta', qar'a'? 'ach nentaH je 'e' vIyaj.
>My friend's Rite of Ascension was last year. He's completed being an
>adult. That doesn't mean he isn't one anymore.
I see {nenta'} as "he had been an adult," not "he had become an adult."
Notice that {nenchoH} is listed in the glossary, as "mature, grow up."
For what you want to say, I'd say {nenchoHta'} "he had grown up," "he had
become an adult." {nenchoH} is certainly complete, but {nen} is not.
(Actually, I don't feel that {-ta'} is particularly appropriate here, and
would prefer to see {-pu'}. Using {-ta'} seems to indicate that becoming an
adult was something he set out to do, and that the sentence is pointing out
that he did, in fact, do it. Unless that's what you mean, but it's strange
. . .)
>wa'Hu' DeHbe' naH. DaHjaj DeHpu' naH. wa'leS DeHqu' naH.
>The fruit ripened overnight. It won't stop being ripe/overripe tomorrow.
Again, I think you'd need to use {DeHchoHpu'}. {DeHpu'} means "the state of
ripeness is completed."
We know this sort of thing works.
ghorgh tujchoHpu' bIQ
When will the water be hot? (TKD p.171)
It is NOT {ghorgh tujpu' bIQ}.
I can find no other use of perfective on a verb expressing a state or
quality. Indeed, while {tuj} is a verb of quality, {tujchoH} describes an
action. Perhaps one is not allowed to place a perfective suffix on any
construction which does not describe an action. (This is just speculation.)
SuStel
Stardate 98069.4