tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Jan 09 01:07:06 1998

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Re: KLBC Poetry



muja' Qov

>edy dared write:
>
>>There is a poem that I like very much and I translated it into
>>klingon.
>
>Edy, you were tricked by the poem you like so much, into doing 
>things that you should know better than to do with Klingon.  

        The position of Subject and Object in sentences of the poem
alter all time. 


>People: when you translate you have to think HARDER not less.
>
>> nagh tu'lu'pu' He botlhDaq 
>> In the middle of the way there was a stone
>
>There are two things wrong with this sentence.  One is also wrong in 
>the sentence below.  The other I leave for you to explain.  It is to 
>do with word order and the answer is early in chapter six, I believe.

        << He botlhDaq >> in sentence above is acting as the Subject of the
sentence: "The middle of the way there was (cutting the -pu') a stone",
which doesn't mean much sense.  I think it's the problem. 
But as I told, there is a "pun" with the words, and may be a 
"poetic license" could be used here.


>> He botlhDaq nagh tu'lu'pu' 
>> There was a stone in the middle of the way 
>
>This says "there HAD BEEN a stone in the middle of the way."  That 
>is, at the time under consideration, the stone is no longer there.  
>Is that what you are trying to express, or do you want to talk about 
>the time when the stone was still there?


        I think the only way to know if the stone was there or not is asking
the author.  :-))   For me, the stone still be there. 


>> not wanI' vIlIj 
>> I'll never forget about this happening
>
>{not wanI'vam vlIIj} if you want to include the "this."

    'e' jIlIj

>> yIntaHvIS Doy'qu' mInDu'wIj 
>> in the life of my eyes very tired
>
>Correct Klingon for: "While they live, my eyes are very tired."
>I don't actually understand the English here, so I don't know if 
>that's what you meant.

I mean:    "During the life of my eyes which are very tired".

    Doy'qu'bogh qaStaHvIS mInDu'wIj yIn
"During the life of my eyes which are very tired"

There is an ambuiguity here: "The life is very tired" or "My eyes are very tired".
I don't know if I can use the NSufix -'e' << mInDu'wIj'e' >> to show that 
the thing wich is tired are my eyes:
    
    Doy'qu'bogh qaStaHvIS mInDu'wIj'e' yIn

Or everything is wrong ?..  :((


>> nagh tu'lu'pu' He botlhDaq 'e' 
>> not vIlIj
>> I'll never forget that in the middle of the way there was 
>> a stone 
>
>The first sentence is as problematic as it was the other times you 
>wrote it.  Logically, an adverb modifying the second sentence of a 
>SAO should go before the pronoun {'e'} as in {not 'e' vIlIj} but the 
>only canon example I can think of has it after, as you have used it.  
>I prefer before.

       
>> Off course there is pun of the words in the poem. How can it work 
>> in klingon? I should leave this way as in (I don't know the name) 
>> "poetry licence"?
>
>It's called "poetic licence," and in order to get a licence to 
>distort Klingon for poetic purposes on this group, you must past a 
>rigourous licencing test, demonstrating that you know how 
>Klingon should be used correctly. Those writing and especially 
>translating poetry without such a licence are subject to ridicule and 
>harsh words from the grammarians.  repeated offences lead to having 
>your posts ignored.

>Translate, after you have figured out what was wrong with {*nagh 
>tu'lu' He botlhDaq}.  If you aren't sure, ask before you 
>translate.


        I think the main problem (I should write it when I wrote the poem) 
it that the He botlhDaq is the Object and not the Subject of the sentence.
But, if there is other thing, please report me.


>There was a child on the floor.
        joqDaq puq tu'lu'

>On the child was a bug.
    puqDaq 'oHtaH ghew  or puqDaq ghew tu'lu'

>The bug sat on the child's hand.
    puq ghopDu'Daq ba' ghew

>The child sat on the floor and yelled.
    joqDaq ba' puq 'ej jachqu'

>The child put his finger on the bug.
    ghew

>The bug on the hand died.
>Now that the child has killed the bug, the child is happy.
>
>- Qov



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