tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Feb 22 05:35:23 1998
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Re: introduction
- From: "Mark E. Shoulson" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: introduction
- Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 08:35:21 -0500 (EST)
>From: [email protected]
>ja' ~mark:
><<
> tlh t_K (more narrowly, t_l_K)
> >>
>{K} 'oHbe' Degh Danejbogh'e' 'e' vIHar.
>I believe the symbol you seek is not {K}.
bIlughbe'. "{X-SAMPA} vIlo'" jIja', 'ej {X-SAMPA} lo'lu'DI', DopDaq poSbogh
*fricative* 'oS {K}. cholughmoHpa',
http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/sampa/x-sampa.htm yIlaD.
No, I was using X-SAMPA, as I said, and in X-SAMPA, {K} represents a
lateral fricative. Check http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/sampa/x-sampa.htm
to see what I'm talking about. It's a little counterintuitive, but like I
said, it's the system that happened to be on my screen at the time. The
tie to the "t" shows the affrication.
>*IPA* lo'lu'DI', DopDaq poSchoHbogh *affricate* 'ej ghogh ghajbogh 'oS
>*Greece* Hol *lambda* mach.
>Using IPA, the lower-case Greek lambda represents the voiced lateral
>affricate.
bIlughbe'qa'. *IPA* lo'lu'DI', DopDaq poSbogh *fricative* 'oS qoghHey
tuQbogh {l}. *affricate* qellu'DI', *stop* chelnISlu', vaj {t}
vIghItlhnIS. {lambda} lulo' *America*ngan.
No, in IPA a lateral fricative is represented with a belted l. The
affricate has no symbol of its own; that's why I needed to write the t and
the tie-sign to bind them together. The lambda (crossed for affricate,
uncrossed for fricative) is used by American linguists, not IPA.
>DIvI' Hol jatlhwI'pu'vaD {dl} rur Dochvetlh.
>To English speakers, that resembles {dl}.
ghogh lo'bogh 'ej DopDaq poSbogh *fricative* wIqelchugh, vaj "l-ezh" lo'
*IPA*, ("l3" rur); "K\" lo' X-SAMPA.
If you mean a *voiced* lateral fricative, IPA uses a l-ezh ligature, which
looks like an l fused with a 3; X-SAMPA uses K\, Kirschenbaum uses
"z<lat>".
>Dung 'ay' pe'bogh DoDHom ghajtaHbogh *lambda* mach wIneH.
>We want a lower-case Greek lambda with a mark through the top part.
ghobe', wIneHbe'.
No, we don't. I was transcribing IPA, not American phonetic conventions.
>DopDaq poSchoHbogh *affricate* 'ej ghogh Hutlhbogh 'oS Deghvam. tlhIngan
>{tlh} 'oH.
>This symbol stands for the voiceless lateral affricate. That is Klingon
>{tlh}.
{tlh} DaDelchu', 'ach pIqaDHey DaqelDI' bIlughbe'.
Your description of {tlh} is accurate, but your understanding of the
symbols being considered and used is not.
*IPA* vIqeltaHvIS cholughmoHpa', *IPA* yISovchu'; {lambda} lo'be' IPA. 'ej
*X-SAMPA* vIqeltaHvIS cholughmoHpa', *X-SAMPA* yISovchu'. DopDaq poSbogh
*fricative* 'oSbej "K", *X-SAMPA* lo'lu'taHvIS.
Make sure you know IPA before correcting IPA usage; IPA doesn't use a
lambda. And make sure you know X-SAMPA before correcting X-SAMPA usage.
X-SAMPA, for whatever reason, DOES use "K" for a voiceless lateral
fricative.
~mark