tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Dec 27 19:26:42 1998
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Re: KLBC Am I doing this right yet??
- From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: KLBC Am I doing this right yet??
- Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 22:25:24 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
- In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
- Priority: NORMAL
On Thu, 24 Dec 1998 08:00:49 -0800 (PST) Steven Boozer
<[email protected]> wrote:
> pagh:
> >We have this very phrase in TKW: <qun qon charghwI'pu''e'>. The lack of the
> ><lu-> prefix is interesting. In KGT, Okrand says it is a common error,
> >especially in non-formal speech.
>
> SuStel:
> : It is also possible that the Klingon saying might be more accurately
> : translated as "Histories are written by the victors." {qun} might be
> : plural.
>
> 1) {qun} might also be a type of mass noun - like {muD} "air" or {bIQ}
> "water"
> - or a vague, abstract "concept" - like {paQDI'norgh} "teachings", {quH}
> "heritage" or {batlh} "honor". As such, they might well not have plural forms
> or are not even viewed in the light of the singular/plural distinction. Thus
> *{qunmey} might be illegal.
The only nouns which can never take plural suffixes are those
like {ray'} and {cha} and those are grammatically treated as
singular. So, if {qunmey} were illegal, then {qun} would be
grammatically treated as singular, and in this case {lu-} would
be necessary and this example would be yet another of the most
common Klingon prefix error.
> Which may mean that Klingons are undecided as to
> which set of verb prefixes to use with them: those with plural or singular
> objects.
This doesn't happen in Klingon.
> Interestingly, {lurDech} "tradition" can be used in the plural:
>
> qorDu' lurDechmeyna' pab tlhInganpu'
> With strong [Klingon] family traditions... (S13)
>
> 2) IRL Okrand may well have originally written {qun qon charghwI''e'}
> "History
> is written by the victor" - which is, after all, the same idea - but
> remembered
> about our own, former BG {charghwI'} at the last minute. Not wanting to say
> "It is charghwI' who writes history", he made it plural, forgetting to emend
> {qon} at the same time. Voila! Omitting {lu-} becomes a "common error"!
Then again, he DID write {reH lugh charghwI'.} {{:)>
> 3) BTW, nice use of {qon} by Okrand: to Klingons, history is creatively
> composed like songs or literature, not compiled {gher} like a list or log
> entry.
I agree with the other post on this. It is not so much that he
is saying that history is composed as it is that he says that
music is recorded rather than composed, as if the original
melodies were out there to be captured, rather than created by
the composer.
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Voragh "Grammatici certant et adhuc sub judice
> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons lis est." Horace (Ars Poetica)
charghwI' 'utlh