tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Dec 11 08:26:25 1998
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Re: Klingon Bird of Prey (KBP) poster: THE TEXT!
- From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: Klingon Bird of Prey (KBP) poster: THE TEXT!
- Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:26:18 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
- In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
- Priority: NORMAL
On Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:04:57 -0800 (PST) Steven Boozer
<[email protected]> wrote:
> : >> choH lISbogh Hap'e': cha'pujqut
> : >> Reaction Moderating Element - Crystalline Dilithium
> : >
> : > Hmmm. "Hap'e'", is the 'e' there for emphasis, or is "Hap'e'" intended
> : > as a new word for "element"?
> : >
> : > SuSvaj
> :
> : No. That's a relative clause and he wanted to make sure you saw
> : it as "matter which adjusts change" and not "change that is
> : adjusted by matter".
>
> Or, since Okrand tends to avoid the passive voice, "the change which (the)
> matter adjusts".
If you want to be THAT picky, it should be "the change that
(the) matter adjusts" or "the change, which (the) matter
adjusts,...". Since it is most likely restrictive, the first of
these two is most likely correct. Either use "that" and no comma
indicating that it is this change and no other (restrictive), or
use "which" and offset the whole relative clause with commas to
indicate a parenthetical remark that this change just so happens
to have been adjusted by (the) matter (non-restrictive).
Meanwhile, I have not noticed that Okrand tends to avoid the
passive voice. He has indicated that {-lu'} is not the same
thing as passive voice, but he has explicitly stated that it is
okay to translate it that way. TKD p.39:
"Verbs with {-lu'} are often translated into the English passive
voice."
So, like, can you anti-passive voice people just get over it?
I'm quite aware that MS Word will highlight every single
instance of passive voice and will politely offer to "correct"
it for you, that doesn't mean that the passive voice isn't to be
used. :)
I'll have you know, the passive voice is liked by many people.
Many concepts are well expressed by it. Other constructs are not
as well suited to tasks for which it is excellently qualified. I
am enraged by the constant insults and assaults which are aimed
at this very useful grammatical tool. When it is disallowed, I
will be very dissappointed.
And if you seek elsewhere than in the previous paragraph and
this one, such a high concentration of passive voice
constructions will rarely be found. Every sentence would be
underlined by Word where corrections would be suggested.
> : Don't forget the Krankor Rule. {-'e'} is used to disambiguate a
> : head noun of a relative clause with both explicit subject and
> : object.
> :
> : charghwI' 'utlh
>
> Thanks for pointing out that these type of {-bogh} clauses - along with {-lu'}
> - are indeed a good way of dealing with most English passives. Not an exact
> translation, since Klingon doesn't have a passive voice per se, but a good way
> of focusing attention on the object of an active verb.
>
> Your analysis is clearly correct. Ignore my previous speculation on a
> possible
> typo *{Hap'a'} "element".
Glad to help. You've certainly helped ME many times, bringing up
your excellent examples.
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Voragh "Grammatici certant et adhuc sub judice
> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons lis est." Horace (Ars Poetica)
>
charghwI' 'utlh