tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Apr 29 22:12:26 1998
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
Re: KLBC: lengmey
- From: Qov <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: KLBC: lengmey
- Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 22:09:26 -0700
At 17:01 98-04-25 -0700, HovqIj wrote:
}OK, aspects. I think the following story will give me the chance to
}practise them. I'm not sure what is worse: my Klingon aspects or my
}English tenses and aspects.
I put this aside because it was long and I was tired. Now I have time to do it.
}DaHjaj teHbogh lut Huj vIQoy.
}QoQ yupma' wISuch wIneH juppu'wI' jIH je. jIHvaD jatlhtaHvIS wa' jup
}pay' vay' qaw. Do'Ha' qaSDI' yupma' DachtaH.
{qaStaHvIS yupma'} would make more sense, because you mean over the duration
of the festival, during the festival.
}*Italy*Daq ghIQtaH. Hoch nabchu'ta'. ngoDvam muja'taHvIS ...
You've tried to fit a double object in here. What do you intend as the
object of {ja'}, yourself, or the fact? Because of the way prefixes work,
you have to choose one. The evidence we have so far (but the jury is still
out) indicates that the object of {ja'} is the person spoken to, not the
thing spoken, so I recommend {jIHvaD ngoDvam jatlhtaHvIS}.
}... pay' latlh ngoD qaw. latlh leng DIlnISbe'bogh Suqpu'.
}(I wanted to say "she won
}another journey", but the only word for "win" I could find was
}{Qap}which doesn't seem to work here.).
I did understand what you meant immediately, before looking at the
translation. I agree with you that the object of transitive {Qap} seems to
be the contest, not the prize. {noH QapmeH wo' Qaw'lu'chugh ...} (TKW
p.211). You could use the word {tev} to clarify that she didn't get the
trip free because she worked for an airline, or some such.
}tlhoS poH rap Daq rapDaq je qaS lengvam.
}This journey will happen almost at the same time and to the same place
}(I don't know what the Klingon
} sounds like, but the English is weird.).
Yeah, the English has a problem in parallelism. A journey doesn't "happen
to a place." People say things like this in conversation all the time,
because you can't go back and change spoken words, but lets discard the
parallelism in both languages and work with the intended meaning. Look up
{quq}. I think that's what you need. {tlhoS quq cha' lengmey 'ej rap Daq}.
}qaSmo'
}leng DIlnISbe'bogh DuSaQDaq SaHnIStaHvIS jupwI', ghaHvaD qay' .
nghghgh. Mumble. This has some problem relating to its translation form
English and it's taking me more than a moment to work out exactly what it is.
qaSmo' leng DIlnISbe'bogh - because the journey she doesn't have to pay for
occurs
DuSaQDaq SaHnIStaHvIS jupwI' - while my friend has to be in school
ghaHvaD qay' - it's a problem for her.
The second clause is attempting to act as a sort of timestamp on the first
clause. This reads strangely already, because real timestamps always come
before the verb, but there's nothing forbidding that with a {-taHvIS} time,
so that's not the whole problem.
I read it as: "Because the journey she need not pay for occurs, while my
friend is in school it's a problem for her." There is no reason to think
that the journey occurs while your friend is in school.
If you reverse the order of the first two clauses, then I would read it as
either "While my friend has to be in school, the journey is a problem for
her because it occurs" or just as you intended.
I cannot cite a rule or an example for this, and I hate to tell you "no, you
can't do it this way because I don't like it, and this way that is not
different under the rules does work." Maybe it's a mental stack problem. It
seems that to be intelligible, successive clauses have to either chain, or
all point to the main clause.
So: {qaSmo' A qaStaHvIS B qaS C} works
1. if C happens because of A and during B, OR
2. if B happens because of A, and C happens during B.
It doesn't seem to work if A happens during B, and C happens because of A.
I know in your case C happens because (A happens during B), but that's the
way I read it.
}DaH
}wuqta'be' 'ach QoQ yupma' Suchbe'bej.
} She hasn't decided yet (=now),
Don't forget {wej}. {wej wuqta'}
}tlhIngan 'ay' vIqonta'. DaH lut vImughchoH.
Dubbejpu' laHlIj 'ach DaqqontaHvIS loQ DIvI' Hol Dalo', qar'a'?
maj. Hujba' lut. qechwIj vIQIj. loS lengmey DuH ghaj juplI': *Italy*Daq
lenglaH, *Italy*vo' cheghlaH, *Italy*Daq lengqa'laH, *Italy*vo' cheghqa'laH.
cha'DIch 'ay', wejDIch 'ay' je ngev qoj je'Ha' 'e' nIDnIS. *ItalyDaq
lengnIS. *Italy*Daq ratlhnIS. tIvnIS. tIvqu'nIS! cheghDI' tev leng,
cheghnIS. DuSaQ buSHa'nIS jay'. *Italy*Daq ghaHnIStaH 'e' wuq San.
Sanvetlh tIvnIS. 'eb jonnISchu'. paybe'bej.
That is: She should try to sell (or refund) the return fare portion of the
ticket she bought and the outward portion of the ticket she won. Then she
should go to Italy and enjoy herself until the date on the prize return
ticket. To hell with school, when fate has decided she should be in Italy!
Qov [email protected]
Beginners' Grammarian