tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Apr 13 21:42:02 1998
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Re: muD Dotlh...again
ja' SuStel:
>I know we're pumping a flat bicycle tire with this, but I'd like to mention
>something.
>
>Let's inquire about the weather conditions.
>
>DaH muD Dotlh nuq?
>What is the atmosphere status now?
>
>I can think of no other way to use this expression.
Well, you can obviously use the wordier but more "traditional" phrasing;
{DaH nuq 'oH muD Dotlh'e'?} And {muD Dotlh yIDel} seems fine to me too.
None of this bears on your observation about the answer, though.
>Now, give the atmosphere's status.
>
>DaH tuj muD.
>The atmosphere is hot.
>
>Note that I'm describing the atmosphere, not its status. A status is not
>hot or cold or raining or snowing. This is not {DaH tuj muD Dotlh}, it is
>simply {DaH tuj muD}.
If you're describing the air's temperature, this is fine. But what if there
is a strong breeze? You don't talk about that in terms of {muD}. The status
of the atmosphere doesn't have to be detailed in terms of what the atmosphere
itself is doing.
What was the status of my dinner seven hours ago? The broth was boiling, the
matzoh ball "dough" was chilled and ready to be formed into dumplings, the
canned peas were still in the can, and my wife was out at the grocery store
buying a roasted chicken. Dinner is a complex phenomenon made of many parts,
each of which can be considered separately.
>Suppose it's raining. I come up with this:
>
>tlhIngan wa': DaH muD Dotlh nuq?
>tlhIngan cha': DaH SIS muD.
>
>We are never given any direct statement of what the correct subject of {SIS}
>is, but if someone asks you to give the status of the atmosphere, it really
>looks like the atmosphere HAS to be the subject of this verb.
Weather too is a complex phenomenon made of many parts, each of which can be
considered separately. One of those parts might be responsible for raining.
As I keep pointing out, maybe it's the *water itself* that rains, *from* the
sky.
>Then again, I suppose you could argue:
>
>tlhIngan wa': DaH muD Dotlh nuq?
>tlhIngan cha': DaH yIQ muD.
One could also describe it by saying {nachwIjDaq pumtaH bIQ}, without ever
invoking {muD}.
>This would keep the question of the subject of {SIS} unanswered. For
>"snow," you could use {yIQ muD 'ej bIr}.
Or {chalvo' pumlI' chuch qutmey mach}.
>I'm not saying I've solved the "what's the subject of {SIS}?" problem. This
>has just been a little frustrated speculation.
It hasn't done anything to clarify things in *my* mind, however.
-- ghunchu'wI'