tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Apr 13 02:12:35 1998
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Re: KLBC:Re: My first try at tlhIngan Hol KLBC
Qov wrote:
>
> At 06:14 98-04-12 -0700, QomwI' wrote:
>
> I feel like the censor, intercepting correspondence between Klingons. :)
law' wIjQaghmey vaj *censor* yIpongbe'egh 'ach mughwI' yIpongqu'egh ;-)
> }*Vlaardingen*Daq jIboghpu'.
>
> Although the idiom for "years old" uses the perfective, there is no reason
> to suspect that {bogh} takes the perfective at other times. I believe you
> are attempting to use the perfective to denote simple past tense. Let
> context indicate your tenses. {V.Daq jIbogh} "I was born in V."
I think I got the point. It's physically and logically impossible to say
"I am being born, I will be born, etc." and stick to reality at the same
time, so why bother to put this sentence in the right tense, mostly
because there is no such thing in Klingon.
>
> }wejmaH Soch ben jIboghpu'.
>
> maj.
>
> }*Vlaardingen*Daq jIghojta'.
>
> "I have learned in V.?" I wonder if this is a Dutch/English thing. In
> English "learned" means that you learned something there, which you do most
> places while "studied" is the term used to indicate a course of deliberate
> learning, like in a school. I assume that the English translations of
> {ghoj} and {HaD} reflect this, and I would say. {V.Daq jIHaD} "I studied in V."
I have been thinking about this and I found it hard to make a decision.
I chose for {ghoj} since I found the word {ghojwI'} for "student"
(=someone who is involved in deliberate learning, like in a school). I
used {-ta'} to indicate that I passed the final exams. BTW I vaguely
remember there has been a discussion on this list about the difference
between {ghoj} and {HaD} some weeks ago, but I'm not sure. If so, I'm
curious to read it again, but I can't find it back.
> }DuSaQvamvaD *Westland-Zuid* ponglu'pu'.
>
> Did they change the name? Why the perfective? {ponglu'} "was called"
I deliberately used the perfective because I don't know if this school
still exists.
> }*Maassluis* jIDabpu'.
>
> {M. vIDab} "I lived in M." The place inhabited is the object of {Dab}. No
> perfective.
No perfective because from the context (I moved to Amsterdam) it is
clear that I don't live in M. anymore?
> }wa'maH Soch ben *Amsterdam* jIDabchoHpu'.
>
> {A. vIDabchoH} "I came to live in A." Same as above.
Clear.
> }*Dik Brijs* 'oH tera'ngan pongwIj'e'.
>
> maj.
>
> }maqIH'a'.
>
> Ironically, this is the one place in the whole paragraph where perfective
> would makes sense. {maqIH'a'} means "did we meet?" "do we meet?" "will we
> meet?" I'm supposing you mean either {maqIHpu''a'} (some would prefer
> maqIHchuqpu''a'} "have we met (each other)?" or {maqIH DaneH'a'} "do you
> want to meet?"
This I consider a major blunder indeed. It's better to say something
grammatically incorrect than something ambiguous. I meant {maqIHpu''a'}.
>
> {maqIH'a'} isn't wrong.
>
> }mach tera' 'ach tIn *Vlaardingen*{{;-)
>
> maj.
>
> The type 7 suffixes {-pu'} and {-ta'} are often abused by people who are
> desperately seeking a Klingon past tense. There isn't one. If you are
> insecure about your sentences being understood as past, timestamp them all.
>
> wa'maH ben *Waterloo* vIDab. "Ten years ago I lived in Waterloo."
> Soch ben *Vancouver* vIDabchoH. "Seven years ago I moved to Vancouver."
> chorgh nem juHvam wIDIlpu'. "In eight years we will have paid for this home."
> wa' nem juHmaj wInguvmoH. "Next year we will paint our home."
> cha' nem juHmaj wInguvmoHta'. "In two years we will have painted our home."
>
> See how the perfective works? When the action is/was/will be completed
> *before* the time stamp (present or implied) on the sentence, then the
> perfective is used. When the action is/was/will be done *at* the time
> stamp, or otherwise implied time of the sentence, no perfective is appropriate.
>
> And why did I use {-pu'} for paid and {-ta'} for painted? (Just noticed it
> so I feel obliged to explain it.) Must be something about the way I feel
> about them. Painting is a task we're setting out to accomplish. Paying is
> just something that happens, as the money is siphoned from our bank account
> to the mortgage. Your relationship with your mortgage may be different. :)
>
> Qov [email protected]
> Beginners' Grammarian